Passenger Trains > Charges Dismissed Again In Philadelphia Crash

Criminal charges were dismissed again today against the engineer in the Philadelphia Amtrak crash.

Channel 6 has the story:

https://6abc.com/charges-again-dismissed-against-engineer-in-deadly-amtrak-wreck/5413323/?fbclid=IwAR1QqKPwIvCC12ud6wCU1BifjZNTOdBmZj_DwmGb7Hcjl2PyTzzNqWp8KzE

But there are enough bloodsucking Philadelphia lawyers and evil Philadelphia politicians around that the dismissal is to appealed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/19 11:05 by GenePoon.

GenePoon Wrote:
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> But there are enough bloodsucking Philadelphia
> lawyers and evil Philadelphia politicians around
> that the dismissal is to appealed.

It even said in the news story that the State will appeal.
But with the case being dismissed twice now it's going to be interesting to see what kind of legal errors were made when they dismissed the case.
"The public demands it" is not a valid legal error.

From the Channel 6 report:

"A defense lawyer argued Tuesday that any mistakes made by Brandon Bostian do not amount to a crime, and the judge agreed, the AP reports."

Jimbo Wrote:
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> From the Channel 6 report:
>
> "A defense lawyer argued Tuesday that any mistakes
> made by Brandon Bostian do not amount to a crime,
> and the judge agreed, the AP reports."

You can only appeal for "Legal Errors", i.e. an error made by the Judge.
Mistakes made by the defendant are not appealable because they are not legal errors.

This is Philadelphia. Pay off a judge, and they're on again!

Posted from Android

Jimbo Wrote:
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> From the Channel 6 report:
>
> "A defense lawyer argued Tuesday that any mistakes
> made by Brandon Bostian do not amount to a crime,
> and the judge agreed, the AP reports."


Since when is involuntary manslaughter not a crime?

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

ALCO630 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jimbo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > From the Channel 6 report:
> >
> > "A defense lawyer argued Tuesday that any
> mistakes
> > made by Brandon Bostian do not amount to a
> crime,
> > and the judge agreed, the AP reports."
>
>
> Since when is involuntary manslaughter not a
> crime?
>
> Posted from Android

Maybe you need to understand what involuntary manslaughter is?

Involuntary manslaughter is an accidental killing that is either

1. the result of criminal negligence or
2. caused during the commission of either a crime or a felony that does not trigger the felony murder rule.

 https://lawshelf.com/courseware/entry/involuntary-manslaughter

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ALCO630 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jimbo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > From the Channel 6 report:
> > >
> > > "A defense lawyer argued Tuesday that any
> > mistakes
> > > made by Brandon Bostian do not amount to a
> > crime,
> > > and the judge agreed, the AP reports."
> >
> >
> > Since when is involuntary manslaughter not a
> > crime?
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> Maybe you need to understand what involuntary
> manslaughter is?
>
> Involuntary manslaughter is an accidental killing
> that is either
>
>

• the result of criminal negligence or
  >
• caused during the commission of either a crime
  > or a felony that does not trigger the felony
  > murder rule.
  >
  >  https://lawshelf.com/courseware/entry/involuntar
  > y-manslaughter

The argument is that his actions were criminally negligent.  The only problem with that is that he had to have been knowingly speeding (ie: he knew that the 55 curve was ahead and intentionally decided not to slow down) for it to count as criminal negligence.  All the evidence and investigations have determined he lost situational awareness and believed he was beyond the curve, which means that it was an accident, and not criminal negligence.  People, victims especially, naturally don’t want to accept that accidents just happen and people don’t deserve to have their lives ruined for it.  Yes, it can be said that his actions ruined the lives of most of his passengers and crewmembers and he should have to pay for it, but imprisonment won’t fix anything in this case, because there’s nothing that can be fixed at his level.  He’s only human, and shouldn’t be punished for that.  The energy being expended on this effort is better spent protecting against incidents like this ever happening again by advocating for PTC, and security along the railroad ROW to prevent rockings.  I don’t see how they have a case to appeal.

The negligence was that he knew there was a 55 MPH curve on the route (such knowledge being a requirement of being qualified on the route) but failed to maintain vigilance and be aware of his position on the railroad. The willful part would be hard to prove - but "oops, people died" isn't a good answer. I agree with the plaintiffs that worry that "I don't remember" will become the instant get out of jail free card for anyone accused in an incident.

That being said, I will be glad when this case gets past the appealable decisions. Since he hasn't had an actual trial they can keep reviving the charges (he was charged within the statute of limitations). A trial with a verdict would be an unappealable end (if he was found not guilty). Otherwise the issue drags out. The case needs to end.

         "I don't remember" has been used very effectively for over 30 years. Too late to stop that line now.

Roar. Snort. Fart.

Can someone please explain the difference between this accident and the flying Charger in Washington state?   Seems both involve lack of situational awareness. 

utwazoo Wrote:
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> Can someone please explain the difference between
> this accident and the flying Charger in Washington
> state?   Seems both involve lack of situational
> awareness. 

One clear difference is that the Philadelphia crash involved a heightened situational awareness. Two other trains in the area had reported what they described as gun shots in a dangerous urban environment, and one reported damage,

Engineer Bostian stated that he was aware of those reports, and in a heightened state of concern (fear?) for his train and himself. When "something" happened, he dove under the console in fear for his life. And lost geographic awareness.

In Washington, it appears the opposite. The engineer was on a brand new route, with little prior experience on it, and a student in the cab. The expected foreman / guide booked off, and various conventional speed and warning indicators were not acknowledged.

I think to keep charging Bostian over and over again is a cover and distraction for the fact that part of North Philly is very dangerous, maybe even worse than Chicago's South Side.  

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I think to keep charging Bostian over and over
> again is a cover and distraction for the fact that
> part of North Philly is very dangerous, maybe even
> worse than Chicago's South Side.  

There was a concerted effort at the time of Mr Bostian's arrest to make him the scapegoat.  The Pope was on his way to Philadelphia that week, the Mayor and big shots wanted to the city of brotherly love to be a village of friendly people.  Nobody wanted to acknowledge the open warfare which happens on many nights in North Philly.

So, the engineer was thrown under the wheels of the train. Life went on, and everyone had a fine time. Every once in a while, inconvenient facts emerge, and the case is dismissed.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> utwazoo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can someone please explain the difference
> between
> > this accident and the flying Charger in
> Washington
> > state?   Seems both involve lack of
> situational
> > awareness. 
>
> One clear difference is that the Philadelphia
> crash involved a heightened situational awareness.
> Two other trains in the area had reported what
> they described as gun shots in a dangerous urban
> environment, and one reported damage,
>
> Engineer Bostian stated that he was aware of those
> reports, and in a heightened state of concern
> (fear?) for his train and himself. When
> "something" happened, he dove under the console in
> fear for his life. And lost geographic awareness.
>
> In Washington, it appears the opposite. The
> engineer was on a brand new route, with little
> prior experience on it, and a student in the cab.
> The expected foreman / guide booked off, and
> various conventional speed and warning indicators
> were not acknowledged.

If I was on a jury,  my vote would be that neither of these accidents reached the level of criminal behavior by  the engineer.

Well, despite what action the state takes there is one other fact no one mentioned. The Engineer of a train can be a defendant in a civil suit brought by those on board the train and others directly affected by their actions.

Prudence would dictate that if you "think" you are past a curve you need to slow down for you take the safe course of action. Slow down, regain your composure and figure out exaclty where you are. I encourage everyone to read the actual transcipt of the interview with said Engineer and the NTSB. Also, explore the docket and look at other information. There is information in the docket noting instances similar to what happened in Philly (situational awareness wise) while said Engineer was a student!

As for the Washington incident. Again, read the interview transcripts. The Engineer stated he knew the 30 was up ahead but became unsure of his exact location. Could have preveted things by setting the air, getting down to 30, then re-establish his location. That would have been the safe course of action.

Thats all the arm chair quarterbacking I will do now. I'm sure I will get blasted for it.