Passenger Trains > Southwest Chief Trackage

Gentlemen:

The Empire Builder runs on a former Burlington Northern Line, which was not ATS equipped.

Trains 3 and 4, the Southwest Chief, run on a former Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe line, which is ATS equipped most of the way from Barstow, CA to Chicago, IL. The Chief can go to 110MPH and save 3 hours BAR-CHI (resulting in the arrival in CHI being 1:15P instead of the current 4:15P, and its LAX arrival being 5:40A instead of the present 8:40A.

More likely is the scenario that Amtrak will make #4 leave LAX at 10:15P, restoring the South-to-East transition from the Starlight at LAX.

To maintain existing arrivals, train 3 would leave CHI behind 347, allowing it to handle local traffic at NPV, MDT, PCT, and GBB westbound and NPV eastbound. Departure would be at 6:20P.

Mike Ronning in San Luis Obispo

Hello Mike (Peter). Missed you, somewhat.

It would be great to have 110mph Superliners running across the flat plains. But how do we get Amtrak and freight rr. management to do it?

2b or not twoB, zhat is zee kwesteon.

ATS doesn't allow 110mph running by the Chief. The max speed is 89mph, and the ATS territory is between a third and a quarter of the route maybe even less. The extra 10mph doesn't help the trains running times as much as good dispatching does.
Remember this system is very old, steam engine tech and very costly to keep up. It's days are probably numbered.

Great optimism. However, I wonder, can those Roadrailers and Amboxes go 110 MPH safely? I personally do not think so. What\'s your take?

The 1300-1500 series MHCs are capable of running at speeds greater than 90MPH, they do on the NEC where they run at 125MPH.

The 70000 and 71000 series cars are capable of running 90, because they at once ran them on the Surfliners SAN-LAX from a Tunafish supplier there and most of the SDSUB is 90MPH. Trains 3 and 4 have lots of 90MPH trackage between BAR and CHI.

Mike Ronning

ATS WILL ALLOW YOU TO RUN 90 MPH. THE OVERSPEED ON THE LOCOMOTIVES IS SET FOR 92 MPH. WITH CTC GOING IN ON THE NEEDLES SUB THAT MEANS THEY CAN CROSS YOU OVER FROM 90 MPH TO 79 MPH AND BACK TO 90 MPH. ATS INSTALLED IN ON THE #1 MAIN FOR WEST MOVEMENT AND ON THE #2 FOR EAST MOVEMENT.SO IF YOU ARE WEST BOUND ON THE #2 YOU ARE 79MPH. WHERE YOU GET 110 MPH MUST BE FRON THE NEC.IF YOU HAVE A TIME TABLE YOU NEED TO READ IT.

It use to be 100mph on the santa fe until the 1971 on LA-Chicago route, richmond-Bakersfield and Los Angeles -San diego

Metrolink wants to increase LAX-SAN from 79/90 MPH to 110MPH SAN-LAX.

San Bernardino County was talking about speeding up Barstow to Needles to 90MPH with dual control and getting the existing ATS upgraded to 110MPH..

First of all Peter Warner, San Bernardino County has said nothing to Amtrak, BNSF, or you about upgrading the Needles Subdivision. Don't make things up.

In fact, look for trains 3 and 4 to go back to 79 MPH in the not-to-distant future. Have heard that ATS must stay as a safety item, however, the 50 car trains cannot safely run at 90; hence the 79 downgrade.

110 MPH only in your dreams.

<<Have heard that ATS must stay as a safety item, however, the 50 car trains cannot safely run at 90; hence the 79 downgrade.>>

If the ATS remains, there is no point in downgrading to 79; an even 80 mph will be fine. 79 is only required where no ATS, cab signalling, or other approved safety device required for speeds of 80 mph or more are in place.

Also, the BNSF main line has a maximum FRA track class of 5, which limits maximum speed for passenger trains to 90 mph. 110 mph operation would require upgrading and maintaining the entire track structure to class 6 standards. FRA track classes were introduced in the early 1970's, which if the previous poster is correct about 100 mph speeds for passenger trains on the ATSF, this would be the reason they were dropped to 90 mph, when these regulations went into effect.

Peter;
None of the SCAX F-59s are geared for 110 mph.
With additional stations being added to the line, there isn't enough running room to justify this kind of speed. The profile of the extreme south end of the line where this speed "might" be attained is not safe for high speed running, requiring extensive regrading (read expensive).
TMF

Back in early 1951 while in the Army I was travelling on the first (Pullman) section of the AT&SF Grand Canyon Limited from LA to Chicago. The connecting train from San Francisco was late at Barstow and we waited for it. The train crew wanted to get back on schedule, of course. I clearly remember clocking the speed between Barstow and Needles at 111 mph by timing several consecutive mileposts, which impressed me. Our section was diesel powered. The second section (coaches) was steam powered by a 4-8-8-4 engine. It pulled into Needles 2 minutes after we did, and that impressed me even more.

It seems strange that train speeds have decreased over 50 years while other modes of travel speeds have increased.

This is my first visit to this forum, and I find it quite interesting.

Jim Stubchaer
Santa Barbara

...by running at 110 mph instead of 90 mph you'd have to find 1485 miles that are presently 90 mph limit and upgrade all of them to 110. Lotsa luck. I assume the previous poster is correct that upgrade to Class 6 would be required; but the reduction from 100 mph to 90 mph occurred around 1959, so had nothing to do with FRA rules.

The route of the Chief is pretty good, however I've been on some really bumpy track on western trains and 90 seems plenty fast to me. I would want to know some major upgrades in track, roadbed, etc have taken place to run trains faster.

Eric, I was on 3 riding fast at 90 and whoever said that speed doesn't help Amtrak's time keeping is way out of his head here! BNSF has been treating Amtrak good, and I don't even think they will get rid of the ATS, the NTSB will have a say about it because of that wreck between the MARC and Amtrak 29 a few years ago.