Passenger Trains > St. Louis' Loop Trolley to cease operations later this month

After suffering from abysmal ridership and strong public opposition, St. Louis' new Loop Trolley will end service on December 29.  The 2-mile line starts at the Missouri History Museum in Forest Park and traverses the popular Delmar Loop bar/restaurant district.  Ticket revenue has failed to break $5,000 in any month, with 2019 total revenue just passing the $37,000 mark.      Officials now must choose between finding additional funding to the tune of $700,000 to keep the line operating through next year, or let the project die and risk having to return part of the $36 million in Federal funds used to help its construction.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/loop-trolley-to-shut-down-dec-as-bi-state-weighs/article_3a1b5067-8202-5c98-aee5-479877e44cf8.html



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/19 20:49 by i64west.

Did you ever ride it?  If so, any comments on what could have made it better (more practical or whatever)?

casco17 Wrote:
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> Did you ever ride it?  If so, any comments on
> what could have made it better (more practical or
> whatever)?



Ridership is so low, there's nothing that could have helped- except not building it.

$37,000 per year revenue on $51,000,000 capital costs? Yow. Do the math. That doesn't include operations, maintenance, finance costs...

Another fantasy rail scam on taxpayers. But some people (politicians, contractors, consultants, other connected...) made money. So not everyone wa taken for a ride.

Running thru a high-crime "vibrant & diverse" area didn't help. But that's most of St Louis.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/19 07:41 by Duna.

$51 million in capital investment for a rolling museum and "attraction," with limited operating hours: noon to 6 p.m. Thursday through Sunday. It never was a bona fide transit service, and apparently never pretended to be.

[Post edited to reflected reduced operating hours.]

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/19 13:25 by Dcmcrider.

A longtime friend and St. Louis resident remarks:

"The only reason to ride is because you want to ride a trolley. The other end of the line is the Forest Park Metrolink station, so some folks might use it to get to the Loop, but that's not going to generate much ridership."
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Not every train (or trolley) is a GOOD train.

As noted in the article, in addition to the Federal funding, local out-of -pocket costs ran the price tag up to $51 million.

Needless to say, countless person-hours, reams of paper, gallons of printer ink, terapixels of images and text were expended on studies for this project. But apparently the eggheads got it all wrong.

What else would $51 million have bought other than idled trolleys and silent rails?

But perhaps all along it was only intended to be a social welfare program.

Social for whom? But surely, welfare for those whose pockets got lined.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/19 08:44 by GenePoon.

LMAO!

What a joke.

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/will-loop-trolley-ease-delmar-congestion-and-parking#stream/0

“That is the future of cities in our country. People forget that, how important this is. This isn't just a nostalgic trip.” (Joe Edwards, Loop Developer)

https://patch.com/missouri/universitycity/another-loop-business-doughocracy-closing

"Business owners have cited decreased foot traffic and declining sales, with many blaming a multi-million dollar trolley that has yet to materialize."

No one could have predicted massively disruptive transit construction would harm businesses depending on car and foot traffic and that a trolley from nowhere to nowhere that rarely operated wouldn't develop any ridership.

St Louis citizens were lied to, but still, suckers.

Taxpayers everywhere were ripped-off.

Some profited.

There is no limit to graft in the name of largesse.

Perhaps the answer would be to sell it to National City Lines.🙄



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/19 10:13 by GenePoon.

Some of the new era streetcars are successful in every way, some aren't. I would guess this is the first new streetcar to totally shut down and will hopefully be considered by planners when considering any new ones anywhere else, the fact that they can fail. 

Duna Wrote:
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>
><snip>
>
> Ridership is so low, there's nothing that could
> have helped- except not building it.
>
It's hard to convince leaders that their streetcar idea should not happen. People tried to tell the leaders that the one in here in Cincinnati should not be built and now we have the results...

Loop Trolley

One small correction for anyone planning on riding this month, the schedule has been reduced to Noon to 6 pm Thursday through Sunday each day. The schedule on the site actually says that with only one car operating it can be up to 45 minutes between cars with no actual definitive schedule. I would guess park and ride Metrolink to the Delmar Loop station and wait for the one car to show up and ride the loop and be grateful that it showed up. I hope to drive over one weekend. It doesn't to good sound too good, at best...

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/19 10:49 by tq-07fan.

The Wall Street Journal had an article about street car mania a few years ago. Streetcar, thy name is desire.

A few well thought out urban successes caused many third tier cities to conc!ude their crime ridden areas could be fixed with a streetcar, too.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> A few well thought out urban successes caused many
> third tier cities to conc!ude their crime ridden
> areas could be fixed with a streetcar, too.

A few? What is the successful streetcar operation aside from the F-Market & Wharves to Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco?  23,000 per day rider that line, which is on par with the ridership of the 23-Germantown in Philadelphia when it was a streetcar. Philadelphia did restore the Rt. 15 which has 10,000 riders a day.  Those are the only successes.

Portland has 16,000 riders a day on 3 streetcar lines and Kansas City has 6000 on one line.  Those are moderately viable at that level of ridership.

I doubt there is another new streetcar line with even 1/10th of the F-Market ridership.  Most of them are wallowing around in the 1,000 to 2,000 riders per day level, which is a complete failure.
 

i would think st. louis could use any extra money for public safety (police/fire/ems and/or hospital funding).............

66

I haven't been to the Delmar Loop since the line opened.  I will try to make it there on a Saturday to take some photos and videos for posterity.  I agree it does not look good for this line's future.  I'm not sure what the solution could be to increase ridership.  Given the current numbers it is hard to see how anything could get it even close to being profitable, or at least to the point that it could be supported with minimal tax subsidies.

The Loop is a popular destination in the city, with a lot of foot traffic.   Parking is always a challenge there.  The hope was that more patrons would use the Metrolink connections to get to the Loop.   Obviously that hasn't worked out, maybe partially due to the ongoing crime problems on Metrolink.   I live on the Illinois side, and have only used Metrolink from Scott AFB to get to Cardinals games and Lambert airport.  Most Metrolink crime has been west of downtown in the areas where the Trolley line intersects.  Most people I know won't ride or in particular take their families there for that reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/19 15:06 by i64west.

Another successful transit project, "transiting" public money to the well-connected.

I'm sure the Koch brother(s) are ecstatic.

Erik Leeper
Phoenix, AZ

Tower_A-20 Wrote:
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> I'm sure the Koch brother(s) are ecstatic.

Even the dead one?

why are the hours soo limited?

I chased and rode December 22, 2018.
1) Loop Trolley approaches University City end of the line on busy Delmar Blvd. 
2) Westbound Loop Trolley car passes former Wabash Delmar Station, now a Metrolink transit stop. The Loop Trolley connects with Metrolink here and at Forest Park station. Metrolink trains here use former Wabash passenger main line which is grade-separated. Both places are not conducive to evening visits.
3) Loop Trolley makes turn from Delmar Blvd. on to DeBaliviere Ave. (pronounced Duh-bolliver). Car is about to pass location of former St. Louis streetcar DeBaliviere shops.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/19 12:40 by Alco251.

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1) Car on side-of-road running at east end of route, inside Forest Park, adjacent to history museum. St. Louis had many side-of-the-road streetcar routes like this one, but none in standard gauge. St. Louis streetcars were 4' 10" gauge.
2) Interior of car 001.
3) Motorman Ed White on car 001.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/19 12:38 by Alco251.

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The Charlotte (NC) Observer offers the observation that the St Louis streetcar may become part of the regional bus and light rail operation.

Charlotte's own light rail system will close for 18 months as its expands its operations.  It has reportedly sparked a boom in real estate along the right of way, creating claims of gentrification.  The same claim has been made about the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail in NJ, as booming residential and office real estate development now lines the tracks.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/national-business/article238118439.html