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Date: 03/12/20 13:12
Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley station
Author: cph

Another Victorville-Vegas train article..

https://www.vvdailypress.com/news/20200311/virgin-trains-completes-land-purchase-for-apple-valley-station

also links to Virgin Train's "Economic Development Plan" - https://www.treasurer.ca.gov/comm-external-urls/economic-development-plan-virgin-trains-usa.pdf

My thoughts: 

* While the Vegas station is farther from the strip than the airport, it will (hopefully) be easier to get in and out of, than the airport. It would be nice if it were closer 
to the middle of the strip (not all the way Downtown, though).

* The station in Victorville/Apple Valley is also some distance from the existing built-up part of the city. It's not the end of the world, though.

* The plan not only discusses serving LA via Palmdale, but also a more direct "future route" (actual routing is unclear) to Southern California.

* I'll be happier when I see some actual rail (not just concrete work) laid on this project, or the CAHSR

 



Date: 03/12/20 13:17
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: trainjunkie




Date: 03/12/20 13:32
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: ts1457

Thanks for posting. I tend to be dismissive of such economic impacts reports, viewing them more as a sales pitch. However it does show a constituency for VT Las Vegas.

My expectation is that VT will eventually pick up the pieces of a failed CAHSR and attempt to rework their holdings into a network which serves California, Nevada, and even Arizona. The more direct route to LA if things are working out might be to tunnel under Cajon. That would also facilitate building a route to San Diego.

 



Date: 03/12/20 13:34
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: cph

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yesterday... https://www.trainorders.com/discussi
> on/read.php?4,4974530

Different article, plus link to VT's plan....



Date: 03/12/20 13:58
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: ATSF3751

cph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Victorville-Vegas train article..
>
> https://www.vvdailypress.com/news/20200311/virgin-
> trains-completes-land-purchase-for-apple-valley-st
> ation
>
> also links to Virgin Train's "Economic Development
> Plan"
> - https://www.treasurer.ca.gov/comm-external-urls
> /economic-development-plan-virgin-trains-usa.pdf
>
> My thoughts: 
>
> * While the Vegas station is farther from the
> strip than the airport, it will (hopefully) be
> easier to get in and out of, than the airport. It
> would be nice if it were closer 
> to the middle of the strip (not all the way
> Downtown, though).
>
> * The station in Victorville/Apple Valley is also
> some distance from the existing built-up part of
> the city. It's not the end of the world, though.
>
> * The plan not only discusses serving LA via
> Palmdale, but also a more direct "future route"
> (actual routing is unclear) to Southern
> California.
>
> * I'll be happier when I see some actual rail (not
> just concrete work) laid on this project, or the
> CAHSR
>
>  

I must confess my surprise that a company would invest $$ in such a project. They are asking folks to drive from the LA basin out to the VIctorville area to board a train. Just the time involved in getting off the freeway to the statiion, parking the car, going through boarding, ect.....why not just skip that process and stay in the car to complete the remaining few hours to Vegas for less out of pocket $$? That train will need to be very fast and price competative in order to attract enough folks to change their established travel habits. Did I mention the HUGE infrastructure costs? Good luck.  

This is one area where working with UP to establish high speed running with double tacking of the route might be a better way to go. Conventional 90 to 125MPH speeds on shared trackage. Difficult operationally, but not impossible. Off the shelf rolling stock and passenger locos. 



Date: 03/12/20 14:09
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: ts1457

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I must confess my surprise that a company would
> invest $$ in such a project. They are asking folks
> to drive from the LA basin out to the VIctorville
> area to board a train. Just the time involved in
> getting off the freeway to the statiion, parking
> the car, going through boarding, ect.....why not
> just skip that process and stay in the car to
> complete the remaining few hours to Vegas for less
> out of pocket $$? That train will need to be very
> fast and price competative in order to attract
> enough folks to change their established travel
> habits. Did I mention the HUGE infrastructure
> costs? Good luck.  

Phase One. You have to start somewhere.

Work with the UP? Really? I think BNSF would have to be involved, too. 

VT can build a better line with less investment than what UP/BNSF would want, plus it would control its own operations.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/20 14:58 by ts1457.



Date: 03/12/20 14:15
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: trainjunkie

cph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Different article, plus link to VT's plan....

I didn't say it wasn't different information. Only that the topic was posted yesterday, which might interest some hitting this thread for the first time who may have missed yesterday's discussion.



Date: 03/12/20 14:22
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: ts1457

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cph Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------- -----
> > Different article, plus link to VT's plan....
>
> I didn't say it wasn't different information. Only
> that the topic was posted yesterday, which might
> interest some hitting this thread for the first
> time who may have missed yesterday's discussion.

For what it is worth, that is what I thought your intent was, not playing the "gotcha game" like some people around here are fond of doing.



Date: 03/12/20 14:51
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: ATSF3751

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ATSF3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I must confess my surprise that a company would
> > invest $$ in such a project. They are asking
> folks
> > to drive from the LA basin out to the
> VIctorville
> > area to board a train. Just the time involved
> in
> > getting off the freeway to the statiion,
> parking
> > the car, going through boarding, ect.....why
> not
> > just skip that process and stay in the car to
> > complete the remaining few hours to Vegas for
> less
> > out of pocket $$? That train will need to be
> very
> > fast and price competative in order to attract
> > enough folks to change their established travel
> > habits. Did I mention the HUGE infrastructure
> > costs? Good luck.  
>
> Phase One. You have to start somewhere.
Better to start nowhere then with this plan. 
>
> Work with the UP? Really? I think BNSF would have
> to be involved, too. 

With enough money, UP might be motivated....as well as BNSF. Certainly probably less then the price tag of building a new line. 
>
> VT can build a better line with less investment
> than what UP?BNSF would want, plus it would
> control its own operations.

I seriously doubt that a high speed rail line is less expensive then an upgrade to existing trackage. Remember, we're talking about $$Billions of dollars for the Virgin plan.
>  
In any event, that doesn't answer the questjon about a nowhere to somewhere rail line inconveniently located miles from anywhere. 
Glad it's not my money



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/20 14:55 by ATSF3751.



Date: 03/12/20 14:52
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: PHall

The drive to Victorville from LA is half of the drive, if you're going to drive that far why not the rest of the way.
And anybody who has been in Cajon Pass on a Friday afternoon can tell you, the I-15 is stop and go from the 60 all the way down in Eastvale to just past the truck scales at I-15 and the 138.
So drive 2 to 3 hours just to get to the train in Victorville? That ain't gonna fly.



Date: 03/12/20 14:56
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: ATSF3751

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The drive to Victorville from LA is half of the
> drive, if you're going to drive that far why not
> the rest of the way.
> And anybody who has been in Cajon Pass on a Friday
> afternoon can tell you, the I-15 is stop and go
> from the 60 all the way down in Eastvale to just
> past the truck scales at I-15 and the 138.
> So drive 2 to 3 hours just to get to the train in
> Victorville? That ain't gonna fly.

Ya, I can just see all the late arrivals showing up at the station after the train has departed after spending hours in traffic just to get to the Virgin station. 



Date: 03/12/20 14:57
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: trainjunkie

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For what it is worth, that is what I thought your
> intent was, not playing the "gotcha game" like
> some people around here are fond of doing.

Thanks, yeah, I'm not into that game. I just think it makes these discussions more complete and useful when there is a link to recent previous discussions on the same topic. For one thing, it helps to prevent repetitive and duplicate comments. But it's especially useful when you search for something months or years later. You'd be amazed at how useful all those links that connect a topic can be when you are researching something that was posted well in the past.



Date: 03/12/20 15:43
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: GP25

And what if the Cajon Pass is closed due to wild fires, snow and other events.
That could close I-15 down? That would be a lot of fun for people driving up
from the LA area. 

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The drive to Victorville from LA is half of the
> > drive, if you're going to drive that far why
> not
> > the rest of the way.
> > And anybody who has been in Cajon Pass on a
> Friday
> > afternoon can tell you, the I-15 is stop and go
> > from the 60 all the way down in Eastvale to
> just
> > past the truck scales at I-15 and the 138.
> > So drive 2 to 3 hours just to get to the train
> in
> > Victorville? That ain't gonna fly.
>
> Ya, I can just see all the late arrivals showing
> up at the station after the train has departed
> after spending hours in traffic just to get to the
> Virgin station. 

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival



Date: 03/12/20 16:18
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: goneon66

and that is why i really liked the desert wind #35/36. 

easy drive to laupt, get a sleeper, relax, AVOID all of the l.a. traffic congestion, party all the way to vegas, and arrive downtown steps away from the downtown casinos..................

66 



Date: 03/12/20 21:21
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: ProAmtrak

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The drive to Victorville from LA is half of the
> drive, if you're going to drive that far why not
> the rest of the way.
> And anybody who has been in Cajon Pass on a Friday
> afternoon can tell you, the I-15 is stop and go
> from the 60 all the way down in Eastvale to just
> past the truck scales at I-15 and the 138.
> So drive 2 to 3 hours just to get to the train in
> Victorville? That ain't gonna fly.

Uh sure, Barstow gets bad too, had to deal with that on the day after Christmas heading from HWY 58 to I40!

Posted from Android



Date: 03/13/20 00:20
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: CA_Sou_MA_Agent

Like I said in the other thread  --- this thing is well on its way to being a big boondoggle.

It may even surpass the CA HSR project in throwing away good money down a bottomless pit.  

All of these projects are so ridiculous as they shy away from populated areas to avoid high real estate costs and NIMBYs.  It's unique to the U.S.A.  Europe and Asia planners must be shaking their heads in disbelief.  



Date: 03/13/20 08:51
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: pdt

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said in the other thread  --- this thing
> is well on its way to being a big boondoggle.
>
> It may even surpass the CA HSR project in throwing
> away good money down a bottomless pit.  
>
> All of these projects are so ridiculous as they
> shy away from populated areas to avoid high real
> estate costs and NIMBYs.  It's unique to the
> U.S.A.  Europe and Asia planners must be shaking
> their heads in disbelief.  

and u MAY be wrong. 



Date: 03/13/20 09:57
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: ATSF3751

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said in the other thread  --- this thing
> is well on its way to being a big boondoggle.
>
> It may even surpass the CA HSR project in throwing
> away good money down a bottomless pit.  
>
> All of these projects are so ridiculous as they
> shy away from populated areas to avoid high real
> estate costs and NIMBYs.  It's unique to the
> U.S.A.  Europe and Asia planners must be shaking
> their heads in disbelief.  

Well Mr CA_Sou .....this is private financing so if there are fools with money willing to part with it....then so be it. 
It's only a NIMBY when it goes through someone else's neighborhood and compromises their home values. 



Date: 03/13/20 19:37
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: CA_Sou_MA_Agent

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------
and u MAY be wrong. 


And I may be right.  

ATSF3751 Wrote:
---------------------------------
> Well Mr CA_Sou .....this is private financing so if there are fools with money willing to part with it....then so be it. 


Yes, I'm aware of that.  That makes it a little more palatable.  Something tells me there will be some disappointed investors.  

> It's only a NIMBY when it goes through someone else's neighborhood and compromises their home values. 

Well, there appears to be no shortage of NIMBYs in this society.  Especially for rail projects.  They seem to embrace highway projects more quickly, as most of them have cars and figure they'll benefit from the project.  



Date: 03/15/20 02:19
Re: Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley statio
Author: GP25

Bring back the Desert Wind. And even the Las Vegas Limited.



goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and that is why i really liked the desert wind
> #35/36. 
>
> easy drive to laupt, get a sleeper, relax, AVOID
> all of the l.a. traffic congestion, party all the
> way to vegas, and arrive downtown steps away from
> the downtown casinos..................
>
> 66 

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival



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