Passenger Trains > Pullman vs. Railroad sleeping car services

Which U.S. railroads operated their own sleeping car services even before the exit of Pullman in 1968?

New York central, was a biggie.

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rock island

Erierail Wrote:
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> New York central, was a biggie.

New York Central withdrew July 1, 1958 and started operating its own sleeping car services. Only a handful of interline Pullman services continued on NYC after that date.
 

Both Soo Line and Milwaukee Road operated their own sleepers in addition to Pullman sleepers.

Union Pacific and Denver & Salt Lake (later Denver & Rio Grande Western) operated cars with both sleeper and coach accommodations which may have been non-Pullman.  Not Sure.

RL Cabin

Good question. Hope someone has a list

UP line to butte in house?

Central of Georgia operated its own sleeping car lines until 1925 when Pullman took over. CofGa sleepers included Pullman built, steel cars.

While the story is incomplete, my suspicions are that the Central was an important interline carrier in the growing Midwest-Florida market so that probably forced the decision.

=16pxIn his book "More Classic Trains" published in 1974, on page 93, Arthur Dubin wrote, "Following the court action, the Pullman Company sleeping-car operation was sold to the 'buying group' of 57 (later 59) railroads on whose lines the cars served.   Writes Don Strack

Didn't the Pennsy operate its own parlor cars beginning in the late 50's, early 60's?

The sleeping cars on the postwar Boston - Montreal Redwing were operated by the Canadian Pacific.

Dave

Parlor cars on both the PRR and Wabash were operated by the Pullman Company until 1956 when the railroads took over operation.

I'm pretty sure that the sleeping cars operated by Illinois Terminal were never Pullman cars.  :)

> Soo Line and Milwaukee Road operated their
> own sleepers in addition to Pullman sleepers.

> RL Cabin

On the same train? When? Why?

timz Wrote:
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> > Soo Line and Milwaukee Road operated their
> > own sleepers in addition to Pullman sleepers.
>
> > RL Cabin
>
> On the same train? When? Why?

On Milwaukee during the streamliner era, Pullman operated the bedrooms and Milwaukee operated the sections in what they called Touralux cars.

cabanillas Wrote:
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> timz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Soo Line and Milwaukee Road operated their
> > > own sleepers in addition to Pullman sleepers.
> >
> > > RL Cabin
> >
> > On the same train? When? Why?
>
> On Milwaukee during the streamliner era, Pullman
> operated the bedrooms and Milwaukee operated the
> sections in what they called Touralux cars.

The Milwaukee tables in the May 1959 Official Guide refer to the Olympian's section sleeper as "Pullman Touralux Sleeper".

Dave 

DavidP Wrote:
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> The Milwaukee tables in the May 1959 Official
> Guide refer to the Olympian's section sleeper as
> "Pullman Touralux Sleeper".

I checked June 1954 and it's "Touralux Sleeping Cars" in it. Also some other trains had services such as "Tourist Car" and "Standard Sleeper" which were not designated Pullman. 

It did have lightweight sleepers which were Pullman operated.

Apparently this was a policy which the Milwaukee Road revisited.

What about the likes of the B&M or the New Haven?

sums007 Wrote:
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> What about the likes of the B&M or the New Haven?

NH remained Pullman to the end, as it was merged into the PC on the same date that Pullman quit.  The B&M's last sleepers were Pullman-operated on the Montrealer/Washingtonian.  Per my earlier post, the Redwing's sleepers (dropped in 1959) were Canadian Pacific operated, although there has been some discussion on the Passenger Consists site about Pullman sleepers substituting during periods of high demand elsewhere on the CP system.  It's not clear to me if this was just an equipment lease, or a temporary Pullman operation.

Dave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/20 20:35 by DavidP.

This is a huge topic with many different threads.  Rock Island withdrew from Pullman in November 1958, except for interline runs.  After a couple of years, only the Golden State sleepers remained Pullman operation, and those were Pullman until the end.... except for the Minneapolis to LA sleeper, which was a Rock Island sleeper.  Other roads which had a mixture... Frisco's service to Pensacola had a railroad operated sleeper, IC (Y&MV) sleeper service on the Planter (Memphis-Vicksburg-New Orleans) was also a railroad sleeper operation.  The GM&O "Little" Rebels sleepers may have been a railroad rather than Pullman operation for part of their time, while other GM&O services - the Gulf Coast Rebel - operated with regular Pullmans. The UP Butte special was Pullman to the end, including the Pullman operated food service in one end of the car.  I believe that all of the Milwaukee sleeping car services, including Touralux, became Pullman operated in 1955 when Milwaukee took over the UP City trains.  Whether that shift was coincidental or part of the requirement for assuming those City train operations, I cannot say.  Canadian sleepers were taken over in stages by CN and CP.  Many roads flirted with the idea of withdrawing from Pullman in the 1950s or 1960s and operating their own sleepers.  In most cases, they determined that Pullman operation was more economical and remaining with Pullman meant that the roads had access to an extensive pool of cars when needed for heavy traffic demands, special trains, etc.

Bill Pollard