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Passenger Trains > CZ consist question


Date: 01/11/21 16:26
CZ consist question
Author: Pioneer2526

Hello I’m planning a trip soon, are the sleepers behind the engine and is 630 the first one ? Thanks in advance

Posted from iPhone



Date: 01/11/21 16:52
Re: CZ consist question
Author: ccn511

Sleepers are behind the power. 540/640 (dorm, if running) is first. 532/632 second, 531/631 next followed by the diner. No 530/630 on the CZ.



Date: 01/11/21 17:03
Re: CZ consist question
Author: Pioneer2526

Interesting, looking at my ticket it says 0630. Thanks for your reply

Posted from iPhone



Date: 01/11/21 17:52
Re: CZ consist question
Author: mundo

Sounds like they have renumber cars.   630 has not been used as a regular car as long as I can remember.  but would expect it to be next to diner.



Date: 01/11/21 17:59
Re: CZ consist question
Author: ChrisJ

I had a 530 on the CZ a few years ago (still have a copy of the e-ticket). It was positioned where I would have expected it to be 533.



Date: 01/11/21 22:35
Re: CZ consist question
Author: IC_2024

ccn511 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sleepers are behind the power. 540/640 (dorm, if
> running) is first. 532/632 second, 531/631 next
> followed by the diner. No 530/630 on the CZ.

There’s no 40 car at all ... And, depending on demand, a 30 car is in the consist.



Date: 01/12/21 02:13
Re: CZ consist question
Author: jp1822

IC_2024 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ccn511 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sleepers are behind the power. 540/640 (dorm,
> if
> > running) is first. 532/632 second, 531/631 next
> > followed by the diner. No 530/630 on the CZ.
>
> There’s no 40 car at all ... And, depending on
> demand, a 30 car is in the consist.

I am not sure what the Dorm Car Number is exactly, but I will say that there is no 531/631. Even when the sleeper were on the back of the Zephyr (a  few years ago), it was 531/631 (next to diner), followed by 532/632, then the LAST car on the train 533/633. That's again, when the sleepers were positioned on the back. I took a trip on the Zephyr in late October and Amtrak was still operating three sleepers and selling space in the dorm car. Those occupying roomettes in the dorm car were NOT happy that they had to WALK the length of the train to get back to the Sightseer Lounge and Diner, let alone be eposed to the head-end horn all night!



Date: 01/12/21 05:51
Re: CZ consist question
Author: CP8888

Any passenger in sleeper next to power is in for a restless night. No way to treat first class.

Posted from Android



Date: 01/12/21 08:05
Re: CZ consist question
Author: mp51w

I can think of no good reason why they can't turn the consisit around, and put the sleepers on the rear!
Aren't they opening themselves up to more potential liability, as in the case of a derailment,
by having the people with money, and likely deeper pockets for legal action, at the head end?



Date: 01/12/21 08:26
Re: CZ consist question
Author: agent1522

If the train is has a baggage car then a step down sleeper is necessary so the crew can access the baggage car.  That means the sleeping cars have to be at the front of the train. 



Date: 01/12/21 08:41
Re: CZ consist question
Author: jp1822

agent1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the train is has a baggage car then a step down
> sleeper is necessary so the crew can access the
> baggage car.  That means the sleeping cars have
> to be at the front of the train. 

Is it necessary to access the baggage car directly from the consist? Can always put the Dorm/Sleeper up front and then put the sleeper cars on the rear. That's what they did on the CZ Consist I was on for example. Can put the baggage car on the rear of the train, which has been done a LOT, however, there still could be an argument to access the locomotive from the baggage car and Trans/Dorm Sleeper. And then if the sleeper is not up in the front, the coaches are. Little bit of a catch 22. 



Date: 01/12/21 09:20
Re: CZ consist question
Author: realistic

As the train's been running recently it goes like this - two engines back to back (as the cab is nose to the first sleeper), 532, 531,530 (no dorm), diner, lounge, 10 coach, 11 coach and now 12 coach. 



Date: 01/12/21 13:33
Re: CZ consist question
Author: CP8888

realistic Wrote: If the train has NO baggage car there is also no reason the sleepers can't be on the rear. Passengers paying $$$$ deserve some consideration!






-------------------------------------------------------
> As the train's been running recently it goes like
> this - two engines back to back (as the cab is
> nose to the first sleeper), 532, 531,530 (no
> dorm), diner, lounge, 10 coach, 11 coach and now
> 12 coach. 

Posted from Android



Date: 01/13/21 10:41
Re: CZ consist question
Author: steve4031

Is it possible for crew members to access the lead engine when more than one engine is pulling the train and it is moving?  I know that when there is one engine, such as on the Lincoln service, I have seen crew members walk into the engine to get to the cab.  If access is not possible when multiple engines are pulling the consist than it should not matter where the sleepers are and the transition car are in the consist.  



Date: 01/13/21 21:41
Re: CZ consist question
Author: chakk

I withnessed several years ago the two engines on Amtrak #5 running elephant style requiring reversal of positions during a driving snowstorm at Soldier Summit.  The engineer enlisted the assistance of the Assistant Conductor to sit in one engine while he moved the other, with permission from the dispatcher to occupy the crossover and second main at the Summit.  The entire shuffle took more than an hour, with both crew members walking outside between engines and the transition coach just behind the baggage car.



Date: 01/14/21 08:02
Re: CZ consist question
Author: jello

steve4031 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it possible for crew members to access the lead
> engine when more than one engine is pulling the
> train and it is moving?  I know that when there
> is one engine, such as on the Lincoln service, I
> have seen crew members walk into the engine to get
> to the cab.

There is no nose door on the P42s.  If there are two in the consist, there is no access to the engineer's cab from the passenger cars.

> If access is not possible when
> multiple engines are pulling the consist than it
> should not matter where the sleepers are and the
> transition car are in the consist.

The transition dorm (if present) has to be the first car since it is transitioning between the single level (i.e. bag car) and double level equipment.  In theory, the sleepers could be anywhere in the consist, but when Amtrak started selling rooms in the dorm car to paying passengers (there are 20 roomettes in the trans dorm and less than 10 OBS needing a room not in their duty car) they moved the sleepers to the front so that the sleeping car attendent in the first sleeping car was also able to easily handle the passengers in the trans-dorm.  If there's no trans-dorm, this doesn't apply of course, but habbits die hard.



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