Passenger Trains > NJ Transit: Give us ideas on improving rail to Metlife Stadium

NJ Transit is asking the public for suggestions on how to improve the rail access to MetLife stadium. The rail link has rarely worked well, and has worked spectacularly badly on several occasions.  You know they're desperate when they don't turn to consultants with high priced contracts, but actually ask riders...

Paywall possible:  https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/transportation/2021/02/18/nj-transit-rfp-seeks-ideas-fix-metlife-meadowlands-transit-issues/6798384002/

I don't see why NJT can't get a shuttle train operation on a 7 mile route to work. For the LIRR or MN that would be child's play, and they deal with Yankee Stadium, Mets Stadium, and Belmont Racetrack. 

You might suggest an improvement in the Jets' and Giants' personnal as a starting point.

But is it really that hard? Maybe I am missing something here. 

Trains came out of NYP with people looking to transfer at Secaucus. But often times people would stack up on the platform waiting for a train. Shouldn't it be a "load and go" on the lower platform with empty inbound trains empty to pickup the transferring passengers? Anything originating out of Hoboken - run it express to Metlife Stadium "on track 2," stack all other trains up in que waiting for the transferring passengers. If they try to synch with trains coming out of Hoboken - those trains could get delayed, or not have enough seats to accommodate boarding passengers. Too many variables. The Secaucus "transfer" was VERY busy with passengers. 

It's hard for a glorified bus company. 

Best solution is to make it a through station. Start the grade immediately at the current end of track while doing an s-curve to get to the west side of the I-95/NJ-3 connector then run straight at the approach to Hoboken in the swap west of I-95 on a split flyover (to avoid at-grade interference). Reroute all Paascak Valley line trains to serve the station on the new flyover. For heavy traffic events, run the loop out of Hoboken, with the shorter distance on the higher-traffic leg. Meaning before the event, trains run Hoboken-Secaucus-[flyover]-Meadowlands-Secaucus-Hoboken. At the end of an event, reverse it, the trainset then runs Hoboken-Secaucus-Meadowlands-[flyover]-Secaucus-Hoboken. Ideally everything could be electrified so even Pascack Valley line trains could use an ALP-45 in electric mode for higher acceleration, but shuttle trains could be Arrow IIIs or the MLV-EMU if those ever get built. If the Secaucus loop is ever built, the shutle trains can run out of Penn Station.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> It's hard for a glorified bus company. 

Remember the old Palisades Park jingle?

"Public Service sure is great it takes you right up to the gate!"

TJY

icancmp193 Wrote:
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> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's hard for a glorified bus company. 
>
> Remember the old Palisades Park jingle?
>
> "Public Service sure is great it takes you right
> up to the gate!"
>
> TJY

Public Service streetcars from several directions converged at Palisades Park. You could even take the Public Service ferry from 125th Street in Harlem / Manhattanville, and take the trolley up to the gate.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I don't see why NJT can't get a shuttle train
> operation on a 7 mile route to work. For the LIRR
> or MN that would be child's play, and they deal
> with Yankee Stadium, Mets Stadium, and Belmont
> Racetrack. 

The problem is that nobody who designed the Meadowlands station, took into account that people tend to arrive gradually, but all want to leave at the same time.  What is needs, is a yard beyond the platform where they can stage 10 or so trains, so that one can pull in as soon as the one ahead of it departs.

bioyans Wrote:
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> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't see why NJT can't get a shuttle train
> > operation on a 7 mile route to work. For the
> LIRR
> > or MN that would be child's play, and they deal
> > with Yankee Stadium, Mets Stadium, and Belmont
> > Racetrack. 
>
> The problem is that nobody who designed the
> Meadowlands station, took into account that people
> tend to arrive gradually, but all want to leave at
> the same time.  What is needs, is a yard beyond
> the platform where they can stage 10 or so trains,
> so that one can pull in as soon as the one ahead
> of it departs.

Agreed.  Another issue is the ending time for the evening festivities is always changing -- how do you know exactly when a game is going to end or a concert let out -- and you can get into hours of service issues for the crews.

Brian

Other railroads seem to be able to deal with similar situations and don't call in consultants and salemen to tell them to build monorails. 

If I was NJT, I would have just built a Meadowlands Station right on the Bergen County Line not just to serve sporting events but to be a park n ride lot. Even adding two extra tracks at the station would help for the extra trains so that way they don't tie up the rest of the rail traffic. Once the Arrow IIIs are retired, they aren't coming back.

One problem is the stadium, race track, and arena (now a shopping mall) preceded the rail spur by 20 years.  So, the entire space was spoken for, and the owner Sports Authority, makes a lot of money from the parking fees.  Like the airports, they don't have an interest in giving customers an alternative to drive / park.  The NJ Sports and Exposition Authority precedes NJ Transit by about 8 years, and is forever fighting with the 10 towns which are part of the Meadowlands district.

And, everyone knows that NJ public agencies don't play well together....

When my mother was at Stanford in the '20s, each year Stanford and UC Berkeley would play their annual
football game, switching locations each year. Mom, the daughter of a Santa Fe RIP track foreman, said they
ran several trains back and forth annually without any problems.

Bill Deaver
Mojave, CA

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> One problem is the stadium, race track, and arena
> (now a shopping mall) preceded the rail spur by 20
> years.  So, the entire space was spoken for, and
> the owner Sports Authority, makes a lot of money
> from the parking fees.  Like the airports, they
> don't have an interest in giving customers an
> alternative to drive / park.  The NJ Sports and
> Exposition Authority precedes NJ Transit by about
> 8 years, and is forever fighting with the 10 towns
> which are part of the Meadowlands district.
>
> And, everyone knows that NJ public agencies don't
> play well together....
I think you nailed it.... The NJ Sports and Exposition Authority could care less what NJT wants or does. Also keep in mind, for a couple of years there was a major engineer shortage. That limited how many trains could actually run during sporting/concert events. Most of the engineers working these events were doing so on their days off. The really tough days were when there was a game or concert during a weekday.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> NJ Transit is asking the public for suggestions on
> how to improve the rail access to MetLife stadium.

Since they are stuck with the absurd and asinine indirect alignment from the northwest, they could at least provide direct trains to where people live on each laccesisble line (Coast Line, NEC, Raritan, M&E, Pascack Valley, Hoboken)

Why is the concept of direct service so difficult to figure out?

3 trains on the platform, 6 staged northwest from the station, stage 9 more at and near Secuacust, dispatch 3 trains to each line 

abyler Wrote:

> Since they are stuck with the absurd and asinine
> indirect alignment from the northwest, they could
> at least provide direct trains to where people
> live on each laccesisble line (Coast Line, NEC,
> Raritan, M&E, Pascack Valley, Hoboken)
>
> Why is the concept of direct service so difficult
> to figure out?

See my 02/19/21 09:40 post.