Passenger Trains > Talgo clarification needed

I'm not clear on what effect the scraping of these two Talgo train sets will have on Amtrak's Cascade service.

Can anyone help me answer the following 3 questions I have:

1,  How many Talgo train sets remain in active service on Cascade trains?

2.  Will some Cascade trains revert back to Amfleet consists?

3.  Are the X-Milwaukee Talgos still stored at Beech Grove?

Thanks for any help.
 

ronald321 Wrote:
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>
> 1,  How many Talgo train sets remain in active
> service on Cascade trains?

Two, both owned by Oregon and they are Series 8 with the "mator" cab cars, Mt Bachelor and Mt Jefferson...

> 2.  Will some Cascade trains revert back to
> Amfleet consists?

Horizon, already have..

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/21 06:50 by ats90mph.

Supposedly the two former Wisconsin Talgo 8 train sets will join the Cascade Talgo 8s until the new equipment is procured jointly by WSDOT / ODOT / Amtrak.

Aren't the "Wisconsin" ones sitting in Beech Grove with a ton of graffiti all over them ?

Thanks, ats90mph, appreciate the info.

Being familiar with Horizon cars -- I consider this another downgrading of service.

Basically, Horizon cars are commuter coaches, totally lacking  in interior style or attractiveness.
They are not much more than plain metal boxes, with gun-slit windows.
 

Horizon interiors are like Amfleet-1, but have regular commuter car ceiling lights. I was perfectly content in one on the Three Rivers in 2004, configured for LD seating and curtains. Another passenger was commenting in Chicago "this is so much nicer than the train we took from Erie", probably a grungy Amfleet-2 before the Capstone face-lift. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/21 08:20 by joemvcnj.

Agree!!  Having ridden Cascade Talgo Business class a number of times between SEA and VAN BC, I find the switch to Horizon a downgrade!!  What about food service on the Horizons?  I found the food service cars - Bristo? -on the Cascades very nice.
Ronald, thanks for asking the questions and getting the clarifications.  I was also curious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/21 08:28 by viatrainrider.

Just a couple of added thoughts.  Word here in the Seattle area is that the Washington DOT has decided not to take the Wisconsin Talgos because it would be more expensive than just accepting Horizon trains from Amtrak. So far, we have two Horizon trainsets of four coaches and one club dinette each. and we've been seeing them a lot because of assorted problems with the Oregon sets.  We are also hearing that Washington wants all four Cascades round trips between Seattle and Portland back on or by August 1st, about the time the Point Defiance Bypass is supposed to go back into service.  That will require at least another Horizon set, plus spares cars.  Having those trips plus all of the Oregon and Seattle-Vancouver BC round trips back will require still another Horizon set for a total of four Horizons and the two Oregon Talgos, and a fifth Horizon set will be needed to add the desired two additional daily round trips between Seattle and Portland, and really there should be a sixth Horizon set on hand that to replace the Oregon Talgos when they need repair.  Those two additional round trips, by the way, are tentatively scheduled to finally start sometime next year.  .Happily, the Horizon cars we've received so far are freshly refurbished inside, though not freshly repainted on the outside.  We're still waiting to see if Washington will have them repainted into Cascades colors. 
 

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Aren't the "Wisconsin" ones sitting in Beech Grove
> with a ton of graffiti all over them ?


No. They've been very closely watched and maintained by Talgo, even while at Beech Grove.

They are now at Talgo in Milwaukee.

ronald321 Wrote:
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> Thanks, ats90mph, appreciate the info.
>
> Being familiar with Horizon cars -- I consider
> this another downgrading of service.
>
> Basically, Horizon cars are commuter coaches,
> totally lacking  in interior style or
> attractiveness.
> They are not much more than plain metal boxes,
> with gun-slit windows.
>  

You would prefer to ride in a train deemed unsafe by the NTSB?

altoonafn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> You would prefer to ride in a train deemed unsafe
> by the NTSB?

...over the objections of those with proof that they are not?

TAW

altoonafn Wrote:

> You would prefer to ride in a train deemed unsafe by the NTSB?

How come Talgo 6 is deemed unsafe, but not Amfleet-1 for shredding apart in North Philly, or an Amdinette-2 snapping like a tooth-pick in Cayce, SC ? 

Take what NTSB says what says with a grain of salt. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/21 12:21 by joemvcnj.

As to safety, the Horizons are IINM aluminum skinned, Amfleets SS.   All of these were built to specs believed safe enough before several wrecks which caused FRA to order greater armoring.   The theory is that PTC or proper deployment of other speed enforcement is at least as effective.   (note that the Feb 96 disaster involving a Horizon clone cab car v F40 resulted from a signal system issue, Chatsworth,  operator inattention in a non-cab-signal system area, and North Phila, a protection circuit TURNED OFF by Amtrak.)   Full armoring would not have prevented any of these.   

Personal aesthetics.   My several Portland-- Eugene  trips were noisy,  and bouncy.   Thumbs down.  

When the Talgo's were at  Beech Grove there was no graffiti, in fact the security is very good and none of the cars Amtrak or others had any graffiti on them.  i thought one of the Talgo's was gone and maybe both, where are they now?

Woodman Wrote:
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> When the Talgo's were at  Beech Grove there was
> no graffiti, in fact the security is very good and
> none of the cars Amtrak or others had any graffiti
> on them.  i thought one of the Talgo's was gone
> and maybe both, where are they now?

They are back at Talgo in Milwaukee.

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> altoonafn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > You would prefer to ride in a train deemed
> unsafe
> > by the NTSB?
>
> ...over the objections of those with proof that
> they are not?
>
> TAW

perhaps those with proof should provide it to the NTSB

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How come Talgo 6 is deemed unsafe, but not
> Amfleet-1 for shredding apart in North Philly, or
> an Amdinette-2 snapping like a tooth-pick in
> Cayce, SC ? 
>
> Take what NTSB says what says with a grain of
> salt. 

Superliners didn't do all that wsell at Bourbonnais either.

Trains are not designed to collide with stationary objects any more than airplanes are.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > How come Talgo 6 is deemed unsafe, but not
> > Amfleet-1 for shredding apart in North Philly,
> or
> > an Amdinette-2 snapping like a tooth-pick in
> > Cayce, SC ? 
> >
> > Take what NTSB says what says with a grain of
> > salt. 
>
> Superliners didn't do all that wsell at
> Bourbonnais either.
>
> Trains are not designed to collide with stationary
> objects any more than airplanes are.
>
> TAW

You are violating the "no logic" rule. Stop that!

altoonafn Wrote:
> You would prefer to ride in a train deemed unsafe
> by the NTSB?

The NTSB was not objective in their investigation, and came in with a bias against the Talgo 6 equipment. While some information from the report was factual, a lot of the information regarding the Talgo 6 equipped was skewed to fit an agenda.

altoonafn Wrote:
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> perhaps those with proof should provide it to the
> NTSB

They did.

TAW