Passenger Trains > Metro North balloon track question

Is the Metro North balloon track underneath Park Ave. at 46th St. a jointed rail track?

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> Is the Metro North balloon track underneath Park
> Ave. at 46th St. a jointed rail track?

What difference would it make? Why waste CWR on a 10 MPH "balloon track"?

I’m just wondering if the track still has the original rail installed in 1871.

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> I’m just wondering if the track still has the
> original rail installed in 1871.

You ARE kidding, right?

I thought the balloon track was rarely used since Metro North started using cab cars.

The inner loop is long gone, I assume?
Did 85-foot cars ever go around it?

I think lower level loop is now a spur.

I have never heard of a inner loop.
Some diagrams show the lower level loop as incomplete.

Upper level loop is in service at Grand Central Terminal, New York City, NY. Took a train through it once during a disruption with M7 equipment. Do not know if it is welded. Lower level loop not in service. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/21 07:07 by nm2320.

I don't think the lower loop could handle 85' cars. I think they once tried, and people got in a lot of trouble.
Part of the footprint of that loop is reserved for future pedestrian access from the LIRR concourse to the subway. 

Fascinating thread

Posted from Android

You realize that this is 3rd-rail territory and the GCT track layout is seriously confining in many ways. How would a CWR train ever get to this location?

Ray

It also brings to mind if the current GCT terminal tracks are on the exact same footprint as the 1871 ones ? I don't think there were 2 levels in 1871 either. 

Ray_Murphy Wrote:
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> You realize that this is 3rd-rail territory and the GCT track layout is seriously confining in many ways. How would a CWR train ever get to this location?

Nowadays one could get a Holland Welder high rail truck in there and ~ do it in place:

  https://www.hollandco.com/mow/fbweld

Brian

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> It also brings to mind if the current GCT terminal
> tracks are on the exact same footprint as the 1871
> ones ? I don't think there were 2 levels in 1871
> either. 

The upper level tracks were built in 1871. The balloon track was necessary because they didn’t have cab cars back then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/21 17:51 by Sp1110.

I don't know which loop it was, but in 2013, to celebrate Grand Central's centennial, a train of private cars was brought in from Albany and Croton.
That train was turned on the loop and most of the cars were 85 feet--regular passenger cars, not commuter cars.  The cars were open for public display for the weekend May 11-12.

Tony
 

Didn't New York Central pull many trains --backward-- to Mott Haven for service?

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Didn't New York Central pull many trains
> --backward-- to Mott Haven for service?
>
> Posted from Android

I thought it was illegal to run a train backwards without a caboose or a cab car.

At some point the lower loop was cut back.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/21 12:49 by Sp1110.

They hitched an electric loco on the rear and hauled them back to the Bronx. 
I don't think the lower level loop tracks could ever handle 81 or 85 foot passenger cars. The NY Central's 60' long MU's vanished by 1972. 

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> They hitched an electric loco on the rear and
> hauled them back to the Bronx. 
SNIP

Thanks. That was my recollection.

Posted from Android

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> I thought it was illegal to run a train backwards without a caboose or a cab car.

I don't think that applies to passenger trains with a sheltered end..  A backup (brake) hose and working communication with the engineer (usually by radio these days)   Sure speed is reduced, but for example Today's post:

Photo 5 - Less then 60 seconds seconds later, the City of New Orleans backs in after a reverse move at 21st street since the Air Line bridge is still out of service.

From:

  https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,5229370,5229370#msg-5229370

Brian