Passenger Trains > Superliner situation

Between the Montana accident and the Missouri disaster, it appears that Amtrak has lost two full train sets.

It raises a couple of questions. Will all of the cars that were damaged in the accidents be scrapped? How many cars are stored at Beech Grove serviceable or otherwise? Might Amtrak consider a single level train set for a western route? There are enough Viewliner sleepers to pull it off.

Amtrak needs a new car order. Fast.

Posted from iPhone

Getting Venture cars in service on the Illini/Saluki would free up a couple Superliner coaches and a lounge. If you had to use a single level set temporarily there’s Amfleet IIs being used on the Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg. Unfortunately the Superliner replacement mock-up isn’t even close to ready. They’ll have to make do.

Posted from iPhone

Wolverine350 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Getting Venture cars in service on the
> Illini/Saluki would free up a couple Superliner
> coaches and a lounge. If you had to use a single
> level set temporarily there’s Amfleet IIs being
> used on the Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg.
> Unfortunately the Superliner replacement mock-up
> isn’t even close to ready. They’ll have to
> make do.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Amtrak have had a great ability to make do.....but have they lost that ability? It requires unique creativity to come up with plans that work. 

Rebuild what we have

With no disrespect for this terrible accident, nor any lack of genuine concern and deep sorrow and condolence for those killed or injured, this is a valid question. There is still a railroad and a service to run, and at peak summer travel season, no less. We lack no sense of sympathy for those who suffered from a terrible event in recognizing this.

The idea of making up a single-level train, and using Amfleet II long distance coaches with new Viewliner sleepers and diners, has some merit. It would be a disappointment perhaps to some passengers who liked the Superliner cars, and particularly looked forward to the Sightseer Lounge car on a route that has some very scenic sections. But maintaining the service takes precedence.

Perhaps enough Superliner cars can be scrounged up from AutoTrain, the Capitol (ouch! -- hate to say it), the City of New Orleans and Texas Eagle (hate to say it even more) to make up a Superliner trainset. Or, substitute single-level equipment onto, say, the CONO, and use its Superliners for the Southwest Chief to maintain one equipment type in both services. There would be training and qualification-on-type matters to be settled of course (and quickly), and making sure that clearances and servicing equipment at endpoints and intermediate services stops are compatible for the different car types. Such issues can have a way of becoming deal breakers. I do not know how much universality Amtrak's crew equipment qualifications, mechanical servicing equipment, and clearance diagrams have system-wide for various car types, and particularly for a change from Superliners to single-level, or vice versa. I would guess that they are fairly universal, but that's just a guess on my part.

This all assumes that there are not enough Superliners in storage or that can be made ready at Beech Grove, both of which would seem to be long shots, although preferable. I don't know how the shop forces at Beech Grove stand these days in terms of staffing levels, and whether Amtrak has been able to beef them up with new hires and returnees from layoffs and Covid protocols to quickly ready some of the Supeliners that it is said are in the dead line there. Things may be better at Beech Grove - I've noticed that listings for hires there have not been as frequent on Amtrak's website, which could be a good sign of rising staff levels there. But new hires of course take time to be trained and brought up to speed, and that could mitigate against some rapid repair of the cars in this accident, and/or repair and make-ready of substitutes already at Beech Grove.

In any case, this is a genuine issue. Again, saying this constitutes no lack of concern and respect for those affected by the accident at Mendon, Missouri. Our thoughts and prayers and best wishes surely remain with them.

MC



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/22 09:29 by ironmtn.

ironmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The idea of making up a single-level train, and
> using Amfleet II long distance coaches with new
> Viewliner sleepers and diners, has some merit. It
> would be a disappointment perhaps to some
> passengers who liked the Spelling cars, and
> particularly looked forward to the Sightseer
> Lounge car on a route that has some very scenic
> sections. But maintaining the service takes
> precedence.

Was the experience with CAF building the Viewliner II's so bitter on both sides, that asking CAF to build additional Viewliner's is out of the question?

Has the production line already been dismantled?

If new LDT cars are way down the line, a medium term solution would be to convert the Capitol and City of New Orleans to single-level and release their Superliner's to the Western routes. 

Wolverine350 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Getting Venture cars in service on the
> Illini/Saluki would free up a couple Superliner
> coaches and a lounge. If you had to use a single
> level set temporarily there’s Amfleet IIs being
> used on the Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg.
> Unfortunately the Superliner replacement mock-up
> isn’t even close to ready. They’ll have to
> make do.

No it won't.

Chessie1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Between the Montana accident and the Missouri
> disaster, it appears that Amtrak has lost two full
> train sets.
>
> It raises a couple of questions. Will all of the
> cars that were damaged in the accidents be
> scrapped? How many cars are stored at Beech Grove
> serviceable or otherwise? Might Amtrak consider a
> single level train set for a western route? There
> are enough Viewliner sleepers to pull it off.
>
> Amtrak needs a new car order. Fast.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Not all the cars were lost in the Empire Builder wreck - the last three cars in the consist were scrapped ONLY. Not all cars came off the track in the accident. 

Viewliner Sleepers and Viewliner Diners mothballed in Hialeah, FL. Would need to find single level coaches, but if they are found, then replace the Capitol Limited with a single level train set once again, and disperse the Capitol's Superliner cars to the Western Long Hauls. Not the first time this has been suggested or thought about either. 

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Viewliner Sleepers and Viewliner Diners mothballed
> in Hialeah, FL. Would need to find single level
> coaches, but if they are found, then replace the
> Capitol Limited with a single level train set once
> again, and disperse the Capitol's Superliner cars
> to the Western Long Hauls. Not the first time this
> has been suggested or thought about either. 

Have any cars been ordered yet for the NEC Regional's? I guess the Siemens production line is booked pretty far out, so that company would not be a candidate for a quick order of single level LDT coaches. I feel foolish even asking if CAF could build a Viewliner II coach in a reasonable amount of time.

 

Your reply was well said and thoughtful. 

Just rebuild the cars at beech grove phase 1

rebuild the ex santa fe cars phase 2

 

Nobody is going to touch Santa Fe hi-levels, many of which are in private hands and are 57 years old.
Amtrak will never do business with CAF again. Rapido Trains would be a better bet. 

Convert some displaced Horizon coaches in the midwest to LD configuration once Siemens coaches become halfway reliable. That was done to 8 of them in the early 2000's for the Pennsylvanian and Three Rivers. They were very nice. They have long since been converted back. Amtrak has Viewliner sleepers and diners coming out of their rear end. Take the Amfleet-2's off the day trains, put into overnight service if extra Am-1's can be found. 

DevalDragon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wolverine350 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Getting Venture cars in service on the
> > Illini/Saluki would free up a couple Superliner
> > coaches and a lounge. If you had to use a
> single
> > level set temporarily there’s Amfleet IIs
> being
> > used on the Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg.
> > Unfortunately the Superliner replacement
> mock-up
> > isn’t even close to ready. They’ll have to
> > make do.
>
> No it won't.

No it won’t what exactly?

Posted from iPhone

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody is going to touch Santa Fe hi-levels, many
> of which are in private hands and are 57 years
> old.
> Amtrak will never do business with CAF again.
> Rapido Trains would be a better bet. 
>
> Convert some displaced Horizon coaches in the
> midwest to LD configuration once Siemens coaches
> become halfway reliable. That was done to 8 of
> them in the early 2000's for the Pennsylvanian and
> Three Rivers. They were very nice. They have long
> since been converted back. Amtrak has Viewliner
> sleepers and diners coming out of their rear end.
> Take the Amfleet-2's off the day trains, put into
> overnight service if extra Am-1's can be found. 

Sounds like a plan. I agree about the hi-level's though you still have that guy who is trying to peddle over fifty of them.

ts1457 Wrote:

> Sounds like a plan. I agree about the hi-level's
> though you still have that guy who is trying to
> peddle over fifty of them.

Then extend 29/30 up to NYPS, just as they did with the Cardinal when CSX wrecked so many Autotrain Superliners, for servicing and cycling at Sunnyside to Hialeah. Also eliminates some ugly, middle of the night transfers and eastbound misconnections in Pittsburgh. No more equipment required except a Sprinter up and down the NEC. One more train on the NEC to have checked baggage. Make lemoms-aide out of lemons. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/22 10:29 by joemvcnj.

Beech Grove has plenty of Superliners sitting around for years.  Some say they are too expensive to repair.  BUT with the cost of a new Superliner at $4M+, the costs of rebuilding and repair look very attractive.  Hire craftsmen at BG and let them go to work.  

Wolverine350 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Getting Venture cars in service on the
> Illini/Saluki would free up a couple Superliner
> coaches and a lounge. If you had to use a single
> level set temporarily there’s Amfleet IIs being
> used on the Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg.
> Unfortunately the Superliner replacement mock-up
> isn’t even close to ready. They’ll have to
> make do.
>
> Posted from iPhone

CN requires superliners for grade crossing activation. I don't believe ventures will be allowed to run to CDL. 

I noticed that Amtrak's Auto-Train shows 90% sold out for a few selected days over the next few weeks. All bedrooms cars sold out.  In my experience it's highly unusual for A-T (VA to FL) to be close to sold out in July.

Perhaps Amtrak has already grabbed a few cars from the A-T pool to fill in gaps on the western long distance services?  The A-T has a robust pool of equipmentassigned to it.

sethamtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wolverine350 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Getting Venture cars in service on the
> > Illini/Saluki would free up a couple Superliner
> > coaches and a lounge. If you had to use a
> single
> > level set temporarily there’s Amfleet IIs
> being
> > used on the Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg.
> > Unfortunately the Superliner replacement
> mock-up
> > isn’t even close to ready. They’ll have to
> > make do.
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
> CN requires superliners for grade crossing
> activation. I don't believe ventures will be
> allowed to run to CDL. 

Ventures will 100% be on that route eventually. Plenty of other trains on CN routes use single level cars.

Maybe the axle count requirment for Siemens cars will be greater yet ? 
Tthey should have equipped them with Pullman-2410 6-wheel truck replicas.