Passenger Trains > Acela-2. Should we give up?

These new trains have been such a failure so far.
Even we trainfans no longer talk about them.

 Amtrak never mentions them.  The few built just sit in storage. 
Apparently production has stopped.

As a trainfan, I wonder what will happen to NEC service, if this project
is officially considered a failure, and cancelled.

Yes we should. Because Amtrak is the only railroad anywhere in the world that is having delays with putting new equipment in to service.

Does anyone know if they are still testing them?  Per the original post I have seen nothing about them for months.  The last I read was they were cleared for further testing and would start service at the end of 2024.

Is there a legal issue between Amtrak and the builder about them? They might be holding them out of service for legal reasons.

Another Amtrak-fan website is reporting tests at night, running out of Philadelphia, as recently as this past week.

Jim

I can confirm that whatever testing does occur, is usually done at night. It's interesting to note that the very first set arrived in March of 2020 at Penn Coach Yard In Philadelphia. Almost four years ago and not one revenue dollar generated as of yet. Hmmmm .......

I made a prediction in 2022. So far my prediction is EXACTLY on track........The first generation of Acela train sets had issues, but NOTHING like this that's going on, and not nearly as delayed as what's presently going on. 

NOTE to Amtrak - PLEASE do not get rid of the Amfleets or the Horizon in the near future. Not until five years AFTER the Airo's go into service and they are proven to be reliable. The breakdown of Amtrak equipment is at new levels. 

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE to Amtrak - PLEASE do not get rid of the
> Amfleets or the Horizon in the near future. Not
> until five years AFTER the Airos go into service
> and they are proven to be reliable. The breakdown
> of Amtrak equipment is at new levels. 
============================================

"But they are breaking down because they're old.  We would need to fix the old and buy new.  We can't do both.  Please send more taxpayer dollars. We promise we will do what's right for y̶o̶u̶  the Northeast Corridor "

-Stephen Gardner, Amtrak CEO.

 

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NOTE to Amtrak - PLEASE do not get rid of the
> > Amfleets or the Horizon in the near future. Not
> > until five years AFTER the Airos go into
> service
> > and they are proven to be reliable. The
> breakdown
> > of Amtrak equipment is at new levels. 
> ============================================
>
> "But they are breaking down because they're old. 
> We would need to fix the old and buy new.  We
> can't do both.  Please send more taxpayer
> dollars. We promise we will do what's right for
> y̶o̶u̶  the Northeast Corridor "
>
> -Stephen Gardner, Amtrak CEO.
>
>  

But the problem is - the new stuff is breaking down is unacceptable, not the OLD stuff. That's the sad part! There's absolutely no excuse for Amtrak not to invest in its existing equipment till the new equipment arrives, and Amtrak needs to plan for that in their budgets and operating plans. Any smart and good for-profit business knows that. And if they keep the OLD equipment maintained, it's worth more money in the re-sale. So does Amtrak really want to play that game too? The reliance to get ALL the Venture cars out (Amtrak delivery started in 2018) on the road by what 2021 should prove this point..... It's 2024 and not all the Venture cars in, totality, are assigned and ready to go at a moment's notice. Same can even be said for the Viewliner fleet - but Amtrak made their own bed there........Not going down that slippery slope for now.  

I cringe to say this, but perhaps Amtrak runs within its semicircle near-all electrified territory from Washington DC to Harrisburg to Albany to Boston, and anything outside the circle goes to an Amtrak 2.0 of some sort (different objectives, funding arrangement, operations/logistics). I mentioned this causally pre-COVID, but maybe there is some sort of merit. Amtrak and Amtrak 2.0 have different operating objectives. PAINS me to say that, and I am doubt that will even work, but it's more than just mechanical and other failures, it's a constant yin-yang battle that's become very divergent in the past two decades. OR, at least cast off the LD trains and leave the semi-circle and State Corridors to Amtrak. But even that creates a bifurcated system. UGH! The genesis of this post is NOT from this particular issue - it just helps fuel the argument for some. Acceptance of the status quo Amtrak is an oxymoron - it's NOT acceptable and hasn't been. 

The gang that can’t shoot straight.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

I posted a month or so back that, based on my observation of the Philly area, tat there was testing going on.  So perhaps they are getting close.  I sure hope so.  The Acelas are getting dog-eared.  And I believe that there are at least two trainsets that are retired.  

This needs to move forward, and sooner rather than later.

What really bothers me is -- Alstom (or Amtrak) might be unable to fix the problem.

Google says Alstom is a world leader in rail car manufacturing -- and has
delivered more than 12,000 new or re-manufactured rail cars in the U.S.

If they can't fixed the problem after years of trying --- who can?

And, if this project is cancelled--the way the Nippon Shiro Chicago order was --
I don't see how the Acela service model can survive. (which Amtrak considers very profitable)



 

DutchDragon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes we should. Because Amtrak is the only railroad
> anywhere in the world that is having delays with
> putting new equipment in to service.

Amtrak is NOT the only railway in the world having delays:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_701

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What really bothers me is -- Alstom (or Amtrak)
> might be unable to fix the problem.
>
> Google says Alstom is a world leader in rail car
> manufacturing -- and has
> delivered more than 12,000 new or re-manufactured
> rail cars in the U.S.
>
> If they can't fixed the problem after years of
> trying --- who can?
>
> And, if this project is cancelled--the way the
> Nippon Shiro Chicago order was --
> I don't see how the Acela service model can
> survive. (which Amtrak considers very profitable)
>
Well at least they have been consistent - the problem continues not to be fixed. This is a LONG and COMPLICATED story. But long story short, the first generation of Acela Express units were basically a modification of two proven designs that were co-joined to create the first generation of Acela Express. Avelia is more of a beta test project. The more that a train set sits idle, the harder it will be to put it in service. When you abandon a building or a house and there's no purpose for it during its idle time, it deteriorates and morphs into new and other problems. Welcome to Acela 2.0! 

Amtrak's cut back on maintaining the tired and worn out first generation of Acela's, and even cannibalized at least three train sets. Smart? No.

To augment Acela till the roll out of Acela 2.0, how about Amtrak marketing and product management get a little creative, like they did right before the Acela's debut. Amtrak should start looking at establishing some middle of the road product. For example, coach/business class cars train sets on the Northeast Corridor remain as basic service. But for six to eight peak period trains running Washington DC to Boston - launch a service similar to how the Metroliners ran - combo of low density seating/cars with regular cafe car in between, then a first class "Amfleet" car with at-seat meal service, a first class food service car to support the meal service and table seating for those in first class (if they desire), followed by another first class car with at-seat meal service. The first class Amfleet coach can just be low density seating, with the advantage and attraction of at-seat meal service, tables in the food service car for extra space/room (first come first serve), etc. 

If Amtrak can get the Ventures up and running with their cafe cars, re-assign Horizons, and bring more Amfleet 1's and cafe cars back to the NEC, there's inventory and capacity to be had. It's too bad Amtrak can't come up with some creative solutions to use what they have to make premium type cars.  

I just don't know if the Avelia's will ever get up and running to their full potential - or if at all. The project is WAY over due. 

Does Amtrak have engine and train crews to handle six more daily trains?

Posted from Android

I do not think that we need to ponder whether we should give up. The other parties seem to already done so.

I do wonder if Amtrak has decided that the NEC is more profitable (loses less) without the premium service.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does Amtrak have engine and train crews to handle
> six more daily trains?
>
> Posted from Android

It can largely be done without adding extra trains and as more Acela Express train sets begin to hit the point of no return and fail - yes, there will be engine and train crews to handle those trains that Amtrak's going to have to find a substitute for. Regional Train #170 from Washington DC to Boston would be one example where Amtrak could try to have high density coaches, regular business class, and then a premium Regional First Class. Not that I want to be paying higher fares, but if the NEC is showing a "profit" (other people's words - not mine) and the premium Acela Express product is struggling to move into its next phase, why is Amtrak not looking to innovate with what equipment it has. Acela Express is profitable because it offers a premium service. That premium service may get eroded. So, how best does Amtrak look for a substitute/alternative etc. so it can still show an equal profit (again, other people's words - not mine). Business Class in VIA's Quebec-Windsor Corridor is much better presented and innovative than Amtrak's Business Class. Talking more like trying to modify the Northeast Direct and Custom Class that existed in the late 1990s at Amtrak. Amtrak needs to be careful and ensure it is offering a competitive edge over other modes of transportation. 

Why does Amtrak keep taking deliveries beyond 2 or 3 sets if after 3 years they can't be accepted for revenue service ?

Does Andy Byford know what he is doing or he just a New York and Toronto subway guy ? I don't know what he did in England.

Posted from Android

I suspect if Amtrak stopped taking deliveries, the whole assembly plant would stop work. The welders, electricians, sheet metal workers, etc would disperse and that would be the end of that manufacturing process.

The idea that the problem(s) can't be identified and resolved in five years is crazy.