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International Railroad Discussion > Chinese loco shenanigans in South African


Date: 06/23/20 16:23
Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: jmt

Bribes paid to South Africans as an inducement to purchase their locomotives, by entities controlled by by the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council (SASAC). In other words the Government of the People's Republic of China. 
As a rough guide, multiply Rand x .06 to get $, so a million Rand = $60k
This article tracks (at today's exchange rates) around $54 million in bribes, however at the time that the money was transferred, the exchange rate was higher possibly as high as .075
https://amabhungane.org/…/how-the-guptas-r9-billion-loco-h…/
The Gupta's (since departed to reside in Dubai) were mates of the then President Zuma, and his son Duduzane, who was a Gupta employee. 

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/20 05:55 by jmt.



Date: 06/23/20 20:49
Re: Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: ExSPCondr

jmt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bribes paid to South Africans as an inducement to
> purchase their locomotives, by entities controlled

> As a rough guide, divide Rand x .06 to get $, so a
> million Rand = $60k
> This article tracks (at today's exchange rates)
> around $54 million in bribes,

I think you meant to say 'MULTIPLY' Rand by .06 to get $  ?
G

  



Date: 06/24/20 05:54
Re: Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: jmt

Correct, will edit



Date: 06/24/20 16:30
Re: Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: Utahfannz

And what will be done. Nothing!! Greed and Corruption is rife, these scum swim in wealth, while the multitudes sink in poverty.
This is the story of most of Africa's black ruled nations



Date: 06/24/20 17:41
Re: Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: jmt

And first world manufacturers loose valuable export orders, as they are prohibited by domestic law, from bribing foreign officialdom.

Your political class bunched their panties back in the 1970's when they discovered Lockheed was bribing foreign decision makers. The Lockheed scandal played a part in the formulation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act which President Jimmy Carter signed into law on December 19, 1977. 
  
Meanwhile the PRC Government runs amok. The Chicom Pox is not their only export.

Just look at the list of countries with Chinese locos, Venezuela, Cuba, Argentina, numerous countries in Africa, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam. China also plays silly buggers with the sales of military equipment and aircraft.

The first contract with China for locos from NZ was formulated by a Socialist Government, however NZ bureaucracy is programmed to always accept the cheapest offer. That is the problem when politicians play at trains, and bureaucrats run railways.

Discount Australia, a handful of locos were purchased by free enterprise, to pull GE/EMD into line, a lesson not to price gouge. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/20 17:42 by jmt.



Date: 06/25/20 11:48
Re: Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: Lackawanna484

The Chinese have also supplied locomotives and modern rail cars to Cuba. As well as new rails.

Chinese infrastructure loans often come with sharp teeth. The Sri Lankan port authority learned that when they missed a payment.

Posted from Android



Date: 06/25/20 15:00
Re: Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: MitchGDRMCo

Sure sounds like another Mel Turner crack at China, atleast there's some trains involved right?



Date: 06/26/20 21:44
Re: Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: cchan006

jmt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your political class bunched their panties back in
> the 1970's when they discovered Lockheed was
> bribing foreign decision makers.

There's an interesting rail-related connection with the Lockheed scandal, and that involved a Japanese Prime Minister, Kakuei Tanaka.

He was expelled as a Prime Minister already from a domestic real estate scandal in 1974, but he was still member of the Diet (Congress) who yielded tremendous influence. He got arrested in 1976 for the Lockheed scandal and left the LDP (Liberal Democratic Party, usually the ruling political party).

He was the political visionary for the 3rd or 4th segment of HSR (depending on how Sanyo Shinkansen is counted), the Joetsu Shinkansen. The line went to his home district, Niigata, traversing treacherous mountainous terrain with lots and lots of tunnels - very very expensive. His family and friends bought up real estate along the line in advance, but this corrupt act required the project to finish and succeed for him and his friends to benefit.

Despite his misdeeds, he got a lot of credit for using whatever means necessary to improve Japan's infrastructure in the 1970s.

China's corruption also has a bigger goal, and people should be worried, not blow it off.

Meanwhile, our corruption is pretty selfish and useless, where politicians are merely interested in pocketing money for themselves and their friends, not really caring about a "bigger goal." For example (and my opinion), people involved in CA HSR are only interested in propping up connected businesses and friends, not taking the project completion seriously. In that environment where we can't think past money, we are likely to misinterpret the Chinese threat and get "out-corrupted."
 



Date: 06/27/20 10:12
Re: Chinese loco shenanigans in South African
Author: eminence_grise

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Chinese have also supplied locomotives and
> modern rail cars to Cuba. As well as new rails.
>
> Chinese infrastructure loans often come with sharp
> teeth. The Sri Lankan port authority learned that
> when they missed a payment.
>
> Posted from Android

Notably, the Chinese also supplied transit and highway coaches in large numbers. Different countries, Spain,Mexico, France and Canada have helped Cuba,and hugely Russia however the experience is that Cuba does not pay its debts. Only Russia supplied new equipment to Cuba.

China took a massive leap of faith supplying new railway and highway vehicles.



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