Railfan Technology > Digital portable radios

Since this topic seems to come up regularly, who is using one of the 2 commercial NXDN radios (namely Kenwood or Icom)? And what has been your experience?

With the prices mentioned for a digital scanner which probably is not NXDN capable, the Kenwood or Icom portables begin to look appealing.

Me, been using an Icom F3161T with a Laird EXH-160 antenna for nearly 5 years. Even with the programming cable/software and UT-126H (the NXDN card), the price was well under $1000.

No complaints so far. Plus, the radio has fallen out of the car, off the top of the refrigerator, been rained on and still works fine. The programming software was not difficult to learn, just cumbersome entering all the frequencies.

daniel

How do you know the ran numbers to program in?

No complainants on my Icom 3161 or my 5061. So far no NXDN in the Topeka, KS area. Kansas City area there's 3 I hear when I'm there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/15 11:04 by rich6000.

dhb Wrote:
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> How do you know the ran numbers to program in?

I don't. I actually have not used the digital audio RX function-yet. No need to since what I'm listening to isn't digital audio-yet.

If I understand correctly, there are 64 possible RAN codes. "00" is the universal number which should make the receiver unsquelch for any received signal. And would the railroads use this especially if locomotives wander between different railroads. It would be hard for crews/maintenance personnel to keep everything straight.

From an Icom IDAS setup document:

RX/TX RAN
Enter a receive and transmit RAN (Radio Access Number) between 0 and 63.
RAN is used to separate the radio from the same or adjacent channel station, according to the assigned code.
This feature is similar to CTCSS or DTCS in analog mode operation.
This feature is similar to CTCSS or DTCS in the analog mode.
The radio selectively accesses one of several repeaters within overlapping coverage areas, allowing
the user to listen to a specific repeater.
"00" is a special code, and matches to any RAN

http://www.icomamerica.com/newsletters/assets/File/iaFocus_LM_2013/04_2013/IDAS_Demonstration_Setup_Guide_F3100D-F5120D_Ver_2_0.pdf
scroll down to item 2-1-4

d.

edited to add IDAS document/link



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/15 09:33 by 251F.

Have had a Kenwood NX-200 K2 for about a year. Honestly haven't used it a ton but seems to do very well and the few times I have been around other fans it seems to slightly outpace a Vertex VX-150.

Mainly looking for a radio to monitor the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR which is digital and nxdn....

I'm a tech for a Kenwood dealer as well as do a lot of selling used radios on my own. I'm fortunate to have an employer who has invested in my training and service equipment for NXDN and P25. I have been using Kenwood and Motorola commercial radios for railroad monitoring (as well as work, and ham use) for over 16 years now. I have had an NX-210 for about 3 years and a NX-200 before that for a short time, in the car I had an NX-700 till the Moto V/U APX7500 went in. We maintain VHF and UHF Nexedge, and P25 digital systems at both the infrastructure and subscriber level including regional and shoreline railroads (they are still analog). I also own a P25, and MotoTrbo (DMR) repeater on the ham bands so I have used all three modes and as a good Irishman I have opinions (always subject to change) on all three.

The NX-210 is a good radio, it was designed for railroad use with the larger keypad and more robust keyboard, it has actual tactile metal dome contacts, not the polydomes coated in graphite and is close to the TK-2180 in analog RF performance. The sensitivity is very good and for 99% of the time the selectivity is fine for railroad motioning. To be fair the only place I have had selectivity issues on the 210 was at RF sites where most stations require thousands of dollars of filtering. The 210 stands up well to day to day railroad use, of course that does include unintentional abuse like dropping and getting wet. The Kenwoods portables are MIL-SPEC IP54/55 rated for water and dust intrusion when in warranty (3 years). I of course do my own programming so that is not an issue for me but it is not hard to do for end users with a bit of training, and I'm sure if you purchase a new radio the dealer will program it (at an additional cost) for you for receive only. As far a RAN codes every programming file I have seen there are none assigned for road use, so on the Kenwood you don't enter a ran code and then you are in digital carrier squelch. I'll post a bit more detailed info on programming if people want to see it. The NXDN radios can be purchased now at very reasonable prices are they are showing up on the used market. One word of caution on buying used is I have seen/heard of a lot of railroad issued radios that have maid it to eBay or other used outlets. I have personally dealt with A CP Special Agent on a "wrongly" sold NX-210 that was issued to a furloughed employ. Just buy from a reputable seller, or dealer. I saw a few NX200's at a local hamfest a short time ago and they went for under $300.00 each. A new one could be 3 times that.

I need to run right now but will be back to update later today.


Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/15 15:42 by X4449.

The Icom IC-F3161 IDAS (NXDN) digital (now being slowly replaced by the IC-F3261) and the Kenwood NX-200 and NX-210 are very satisfactory radios. All benefit from buying an extended range antenna. I prefer the Laird EXH-160. The optional Kenwood extended range antenna actually is a Laird EXH-160 with the Kenwood name on it. Many railroads spec their portable radios with an extended range antenna. It should be noted that the major railroads are purchasing both Icom and Kenwood radios. Icom has come out with a IC-F3161RR and IC-F3261RR radio that are railroad specific, with firmware installed such that the operator can select any AAR channel combination from the keypad (e.g., AAR channel "036 091"--that would be narrow-band analog transmit channel 036 and receive channel 091). I don't recommend this radio for railfanning because its firmware inherently allows transmitting on RR frequencies, a bad no-no. I mention it here only because it shows that Icom, as well as Kenwood, are actively competing for the railroad radio market.

The basic difference between Kenwood and Icom is in their commercial radio marketing and that is more about their strategy. Kenwood is very selective about how their radios are marketed, and they actively try to limit their dealers to marketing in a specific geographical area. They are also very territorial about selling their programming software. By contrast, Icom pretty much allows their dealers to market anywhere that they want to, and are much less stringent than Kenwood about allowing consumers to purchase their programming software and cables. As a result, Icoms can generally be purchased at lower prices, especially for the programming software, cables, etc. In either case, actually sitting down to program the radio via PC (the only way to program the radios) can be a daunting task for anyone lacking a fair amount of radio experience. Both Kenwood and Icom NXDN radios have literally hundreds of programming options within the software that can affect how well the radio performs and how it is configured for the user. They are no "plug-and-play" scanner.

Of course, both Icom and Kenwood make NXDN-capable mobile radios, as well (the Icom IC-F5061 and the Kenwood NX-700 are both good choices). I use both brands in mobile applications and I can find almost no performance difference between the two radios. As for the portables, I think that the Kenwood NX-210 might have a slight performance edge over the Icom 3161 and 3261, but it is so slight that only the most discerning user could detect any difference. As for durability, the Kenwood portables might have a slight edge there, but, again, the difference is likely not significant enough for a railfan user to ever notice it. My Icom 3161 was one of the first 3161's to come out several years ago and it is still performing flawlessly with use much heavier than the average railfan would ever subject a radio to.

One final note: Just in the last few days, I saw a "sniff" that the Chinese radio manufacturers are about to enter the NXDN market. Connect Systems, Inc. ( http://www.connectsystems.com/ ) is coming out with a Model CS-7000 radio that the website indicates will get a firmware update to be NXDN-compatible. If it is priced at the approximate $250 price point quoted on the website, it will be considerably less expensive than the Icom or Kenwoods. Number of channels, performance, etc. are still a question mark at this point. I have seen one of their analog portables and it appears to be a pretty well-built radio. Another thread mentions that the NXDN version of this radio is still "vaporware," and that is true--I wouldn't buy one until NXDN capability is a reality. Also, the annual two-way radio expo will be going on this week in Las Vegas. It is usually where the two-way radio manufacturers will trot out new equipment. It will be interesting to hear if some other manufacturers will be introducing any NXDN-capable radios.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/15 11:32 by WW.