Western Railroad Discussion > What does this sign mean?

This particular sign is just above the Tehachapi loop. I've seen several others, with different numbers on the same sub. What does it mean? Thanks.

---

It's a quarter-mile post. You should also see them in 1/2 and 3/4 increments. As far as I can tell, the western roads used them fairly extensively but I've never seen one in the east.

What's it mean? 1/4 mile to what? How is it used?

RailJim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's it mean? 1/4 mile to what? How is it
> used?

You'd get a regular milepost (say, 698), then 1/4, then 1/2, then 3/4, then another full mile post (699 in this example), then 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, repeat ad naseum...

Quarter mile to the Tehachapi cam.

Ok, that makes a little sense. I assume it's only used in areas where things are tight. You wouldn't see it out on the open road, right? Mostly in places where things change a lot in a short space. (Like the loop)

When we still had telephone poles back in the 1970s where I worked on former CB&Q track in Montana and Wyoming we just had stripes painted on the poles. You'd have a regular cast concrete milepost then at the 1/4 mile point there was one white stripe painted on the telephone pole. At the half mile it was two stripes, at the 3/4 mile point it was 3 stripes. The stripes were painted horizontally to make a ring around the pole. 40 poles to the mile. I still remember well counting poles, 10 at a time, and checking my watch to regulate my speed since many speed recorders were bad order. I got to where I could easily judge the correct speed by the sound of the wheels on 78 ft rails though.

RailJim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, that makes a little sense. I assume it's only
> used in areas where things are tight. You
> wouldn't see it out on the open road, right?
> Mostly in places where things change a lot in a
> short space. (Like the loop)


That is one example, another reason 1/4 posts are used is to help entertain the train crews when they are only going 10-15 MPH. It is easy to forget exactly where you are when you only see a MP marker every 5 min...

Mr. MRL

RailJim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, that makes a little sense. I assume it's only
> used in areas where things are tight. You
> wouldn't see it out on the open road, right?
> Mostly in places where things change a lot in a
> short space. (Like the loop)

Almost from the beginning, railroads measured there trackage
by miles from a given location. On the Rock Island
East West main MP 0 was the bumping post at La Salle Street
Station Chicago. Before technology made them unnecessary,
the RR's had polelines for company telegraph and telephone
lines. There was a standard number of poles per mile and depending on
the RR, they would have stripes to mark the 1/4 (1 stripe), 1/2
(2 stripes) and 3/4 (3 stripes) with a mile marker or post at
the mile. This was done so bad track or (other reasons)
needing a slow order could be identified. With the removal of
pole lines, they need another method of identifing fraction of miles.
Dave

It's how you figure your chance of overtime. The longer it takes you to go the next 1/4 mile you'll see your odds are 1 in 2, ect, ect. TIC

What that sign means is that you are 1/4 of a mile into the siding.This is also used to determine the lenth of your train.1/4 1/2 3/4 ect ect.

The first time I ever observed fractional-mile measurement was while chasing the UP business train on the ex-Kansas Pacific line east out of Denver in October 1994. The pole line along that track had long since been removed except for the poles with the stripes on them, and it didn't take me too long to figure out what they were for. And note that this was in terrain that was far from mountainous or otherwise changeable, so it's untrue that quarter-mile markers were limited to rugged or curvy routes.

On the UP, these are very common. Every subdivision I have ever operated on either has the sign or a marked pole line. But, the pole lines are becoming very scarce. And they put them over the entire length of the line, not just congested areas. It also helps to identify the beginning and ends of speed restrictions that are not marked with their own signs.

RailJim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, that makes a little sense. I assume it's only
> used in areas where things are tight. You
> wouldn't see it out on the open road, right?
> Mostly in places where things change a lot in a
> short space. (Like the loop)


You assumption is not quite correct. The 1/4 mile increment are in fact on the road. I am not sure of locals as I haven't worked a local in over 4 years.

Virlon

SLOCONDR

OK, here is another one for you to contemplate. On the UP MP 0 is in COuncil Bluffs on the mainline by Golden Spike Park. This line continued on over to the C&nw yard on the north side. Along this connector mainline there actually were -1/4 and -1/2 markers enroute to the C&NW. Now with the merger and consolidation those have been replaced so that there is a regular flow of miles along that line.
Along the UP mainline, when the pole lines still existed, the miles were marked with a number plate on the telegraph pole with the appropriate quarter mile markers in between designated by stripes on the poles. On other railroads, like the Rock Island for whom I worked a brief stint on, had striped poles and the mile pole had a number and 4 stripes on it. With the end of the telegrapy poles and aerial signal lines the railroads went to the trackside number markers as you have depicted for the 1/4 mile.
Another piece of railroad history fading away.
Bob Krieger
UP retired
Cheyenne, WY

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

MoPac used the pole marking also. 20 poles to the mile. Every tenth one marked. This may have come over to the UP from the MoP.

KK

Most railroads also had areas where line changes resulted in "short" miles, or "long" miles as needed to keep the rest of the mileposts consistent. A favorite trick was to ask the new guy to time a mile on a short mile, which would give speed that's impossibly high.

Or on Caltrain, apparently we need all the help we can get, so they put one up... for every tenth of a mile... 1/4 1/2 3/4 was too much to think about. And then they made them a nice bright orange color, so that when the sun hits them right, you're not sure if it's a red flag or a HELPFUL tenth marker. :)

You're telling me that CalTrain posts every 1/10 of a mile along the whole system? That doesn't sound right.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as I can tell, the western roads used them fairly extensively

It's a Union Pacific thing.

Never saw them on the BN.

Never saw them on the SP.

You can see them on the UP mainline east out of Portland (along I-84) and if you ride MAX between Lloyd Center and Gateway TC you can see them from the MAX line; you can see them on the Mount Hood Railroad (a former UP branch); and UP has been installing them on the SP mainline south out of Portland too.

You won't find them on the BNSF main north between Seattle and Portland, but near Tukwila when you can look over at the UP line you'll them them over there.