Western Railroad Discussion > Tennessee Pass....Re-Born?

Hey Railfans this is the Joint Line Railfan.

I recently was messaged on Facebook about a group that is moving to restore the former DRGW Tennessee Pass route for scenic line use. They do have a page set up on Facebook named "Help Save The Tennessee Pass Rail Line". The amount of likes on this page is somewhat on the lower end so I speculate this hasn't been out long. My question is, does anyone on here know about this move/group? Personally I believe that it's a great thing someone or some people are finally coming forward to push and preserve this historic route. Any information (if anyone has anything) is greatly appreciated!
Thanks for stopping by!
Nick Valdez
Colorado Springs, CO.

if they have a lease from up and the funding from investors won't take long

April fools isn't for a couple days yet..

Whats everyones fascination with Tennessee Pass? Its a pain in the butt 3+% grade thats a pain to operate when there is no need to with the traffic levels. What makes Tennessee Pass appealing to turn it into a tourist line? How does this group expect to make money and afford to operate the pass? Only playing devil's advocate here because I'm not in love with Tennessee Pass like some here on TO. You want to preserve a grand piece of railroad with far greater scenery and tourist appeal, rebuild and operate the Camas Prairie RR (The Railroad on Stilts) in central ID, those who know anything about it would know why. Heck it ought to be preserved as a national engineering landmark.

And running a second tourist line in the Leadville area would could well mean that BOTH would go out of business for lack of enough passengers.

I would like to see Tennessee Pass reopened because it's a pain in the butt 3+% grade that's a pain to operate. I want to watch trains run over the pass, not run them. Not to mention it has some of the best scenery in the country. That said, I really doubt a tourist line that long would ever make it. Way too expensive to operate and maintain. As long as it isn't abandoned there's hope.

Oh boy, the monthly T-pass thread, expect thousands of hits in the coming hours...

Mr. MRL

Anyone who doesn't think Tennessee Pass should be open to a tourist operation obviously has not explored it inch-by-inch as I have. That line would make for one heck of a fantastic tourist operation. I have been on many operating tourist railroads that do not offer the scenery that Tennessee Pass does.

The 3% grades only add to the operation as you could really hear a locomotive or multiple locomotives really put their back into hauling a passenger train. That sound would echo off of adjacent mountain walls just adding to the experience.

The La Veta Pass tourist operation currently connects with the Cumbres & Toltec by rail and the two RR's have a wonderful partnership. There's no reason why the Leadville C&S could not also benefit from a tourist operation over Tennessee Pass. Even if a shuttle had to be provided between Malta and the LC&S depot as the rails are currently a couple miles apart.

In the end though, as much as a tourist operation for Tennessee Pass would be awesome, the UP would likely scrap the rails before ever allowing it. Case in point....the Canon City and Royal Gorge tourist operation wanted to extend their use of the line by one siding west to Spikebuck so they could run the locomotives around the train rather than have a push-pull set-up. They can't use the Parkdale siding as Rock & Rail uses it for storage of hopper cars. The UP denied the request by the CCRG to use the track to Spikebuck.

The UP sees a value in the Tennessee Pass line (likely the land they own under and around the tracks) that they won't let go of. If there wasn't value there, they wouldn't have held onto it for nearly 15 years and even done some maintenance to it. Granted very minor maintenance but still some. If the UP didn't want the line for some reason, it would be a trail by now. Numerous groups in the Vail area are pushing the UP to give up the line for a trail but they keep saying no. Plus there's no way the UP would let any other RR operate the line. They can't stand to lose the revenue the line would potentially generate.

As much as we'd like to see shiny rails on TP, the rails will continue to sit rusty until the UP decides to either scrap the line or operate some trains over it again.

Lee Ryan - Rio Grande Fan
Denver, CO

RioGrandeFan Wrote:
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> As much as we'd like to see shiny rails on TP, the
> rails will continue to sit rusty until the UP
> decides to either scrap the line or operate some
> trains over it again.

Unless I am mistaken, if UP decided to abondon the trackage, the Surface Transportation Board could then force UP to sell trackage at a reasonable and just price to another operator. I believe that UP doesn't want to let Tennessee Pass go because they are unsure of the Moffatt Tunnel's (with its approximately 23 trains per day limit) ability to handle future growth and doing what they are doing now, nothing, is a no-lose option for the them. I have heard (but have no first hand knowledge) that Union Pacific regrets allowing the Royal Gorge tourist outfit to own the track thru the gorge because it could complication future operations if they did occur. If this is the case, they UP would be dead set against allowing a tourist operator on Tennessee Pass.

Most of Tenn Pass is forest service land. Only holding onto to it to cut off competition.

BNSF6400 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RioGrandeFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As much as we'd like to see shiny rails on TP,
> the
> > rails will continue to sit rusty until the UP
> > decides to either scrap the line or operate
> some
> > trains over it again.
>
> Unless I am mistaken, if UP decided to abondon the
> trackage, the Surface Transportation Board could
> then force UP to sell trackage at a reasonable and
> just price to another operator. I believe that UP
> doesn't want to let Tennessee Pass go because they
> are unsure of the Moffatt Tunnel's (with its
> approximately 23 trains per day limit) ability to
> handle future growth and doing what they are doing
> now, nothing, is a no-lose option for the them. I
> have heard (but have no first hand knowledge) that
> Union Pacific regrets allowing the Royal Gorge
> tourist outfit to own the track thru the gorge
> because it could complication future operations if
> they did occur. If this is the case, they UP
> would be dead set against allowing a tourist
> operator on Tennessee Pass.

Not the first time I have heard this. Big mistake back then. All freight traffic has to run thru the siding directly btwn the Main, where the CC&RG parks their train and the station in town. Speed thru the station area is 15mph or less. And the CC&RG owns the track from MP 160.2 to 171.2, or 9 th St in Canon City to the east end of Parkdale Siding. Could get interesting. Ben



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/13 18:48 by ns2557.

The next company to do anything on Tennessee pass will have the
reporting marks A&K....

I always thought A&K stood for Atchison and Kan't Run Railroads. I understand that lines need to be abandoned and not all are sustainable but A&K sure seemed to buy some lines under false pretenses, particularly in Kansas.

If they wanted to abandon that line they would have done it already. There is always chatter about the mines in Leadville and how they might need rail service one day. Mines have been ramping up over the last several years. As said earlier the Moffat route is easily congested. Most of the line is single track. Sooner or later that line will reach it's capacity.

Abandoning a rail line is often finical suicide. Once it is gone it is never coming back. Building a railroad through the mountains is all but impossible now days. Even if it would be possible it would be years before anything would be even put on paper. Lawsuits by environmentalist would surely follow. The EPA would almost certainly make sure nothing would get done.

Tennessee pass will live again one day. With the fracking boom I would not be surprised if they find natural gas all over leadville. Timber, minerals, rock, and other natural resources are just waiting to be exported when the economy picks up again. Rest assured diesel fuel will go to record highs and the railroads will be looking very attractive for anything leaving Leadville.

NWRailfan Wrote:
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> Whats everyones fascination with Tennessee Pass?

Watching, hearing and especially feeling SP muscle coal loads up from Minturn with manned helpers in the middle and rear shook the mountain and left an awesome imprint. Now it's the stuff dreams are made of.

Bill

-30-

Q5632West Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Watching, hearing and especially feeling SP muscle
> coal loads up from Minturn with manned helpers in
> the middle and rear shook the mountain and left an
> awesome imprint. Now it's the stuff dreams are
> made of.

You can bet IF Tennessee Pass is ever reopened, there will be no manned helpers at Minturn. They got this thing now called DPU...

Also, I have it on fairly good authority (someone that worked in UP HQ) that the sale to CCRG included perpetual trackage rights for UP (or its successors) should operations west of Parkdale ever resume.

Hanging onto the line in a "railbanked" condition is virtually a no-lose situation for UP. Perhaps they learned something from BNSF and Stampede Pass??

NZ