Western Railroad Discussion > Near Miss with BNSF Freight

Six firefighters at a warehouse blaze at Oakley, Calif during the night were 5 seconds away from being struck by a B NSF freight.  Before fouling the tracks with hoses and personnel, the fire chief says he had confirmed — twice — with railroad officials that rail traffic in the area was stopped.

No deal!  After working the fire for some time, fire crews rushed to clear tracks at the sound of an approaching train.  They were successful with an estimated 5 seconds to spare.

Which railroad officials did the Chief contact?  Anybody other then the Dispatch Center in Fort Worth just won't do it.

With who exactly did they talk to and who did they work for and what title did they have?

Posted from iPhone

Here's some old tricks from this veteran fire captain.  Never assume the trains have been stopped until a railroad Representative is at the scene to verify.  Sort of like live or dead power lines.  Shunt the tracks with anything metal such as jumper cables or an aluminum ladder.  That will get the dispatchers attention and a rep will soon be on site.  Lay hoses between the ties when time permits.  This will allow train movement with careful coordination between the railroad and emergency crews.

PHall Wrote:
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> Which railroad officials did the Chief contact? 
> Anybody other then the Dispatch Center in Fort
> Worth just won't do it.

That's not the Chief's job
The comm center usually takes care of notifications.

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

In NJ, every town / county dispatcher is supposed to have the phone number and title of the railway person in charge of receiving calls about trucks stalled on tracks, malfunctioning gates, etc.

Posted from Android

One morning a few decades ago and a bit further west, a fire crew had laid their lines ove the SP mainline without notifying the railroad, thinking there were no trains on that line to Tracy. A 45 mph freight neatly sliced their fully pressurized hoses leaving a fire crew very surprised.

A couple of decades ago I could see lots of flashing red lights bouncing off trees around the corner about a mile ahead on the Guernsey line. I told my trainee I wanted him at restricted speed before going into the corner. Good thing since there was a warehouse on the north side burning and all the firehydrants were on the south side. Hoses were laid across the rail and pumper trucks were parked on the ballast. The local sheriff had parked his cruiser across the first crossing with lights flashing and he was out of the car on the crossing planks waving a flashlight. Then I asked him how he would have stopped me if it had been daylight and I had not seen the reflection of the lights off the trees and I had come around the corner at 49 mph and needed a mile to stop? I drew him the picture of shoving the cruiser into the 3 trucks on the ballast and cutting 4'8 1/8" of hose out of the middle of every hose over the tracks. I also mentioned if the locomotives or cars derailed after hitting a pumper the town would be cut in two, all crossings would be blocked and the warehouse fire in the grain elevator district would be burning.

We stopped short and I called the dispatcher and told him the story and said he should expect an hour or more delay. I got down to talk to the deputy and asked if anyone had called the railroad. He said there was no need since he was able to get my train stopped. I asked if there was another deputy on the other side of town to stop an eastbound train. He said no.

The next day BN claims agents and special agents were down in the valley meeting every fire dept, sheriffs dept and emergency responders about NEVER doing it that way again. I always tensed up when I went around that corner for as long as I worked there.

DesertDon Wrote:
  Shunt the tracks with anything metal such
> as jumper cables or an aluminum ladder. 

.......assuming you can find a ladder....oh, on the fire truck. Got it!. Great idea!

BB

You’re a better person than me, FBE.

Posted from iPhone

ALCO630 Wrote:
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> That's not the Chief's job
> The comm center usually takes care of
> notifications.
>
It is ultimately the responsibility of the on-scene Commanding officer to ensure scene safety. It is the task of the dispatch center to make notifications/requests to outside agencies.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/10/train-nearly-hits-crews-putting-out-two-alarm-fire-in-oakley/
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/crews-working-to-contain-fire-at-oakley-tire-shop/1512185019

Something of a nervous Nellie if something is not quite right. The delay for slowing down is never as much as the delay from what might happen if something is out of place.

The brakeman with me had a cow when I told the trainee to be prepared to stop. He was not so vocal once we stopped. Never did get a thanks from any railroad officials.



jointauthority Wrote:
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> You’re a better person than me, FBE.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Westbound Wrote:
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> One morning a few decades ago and a bit further
> west, a fire crew had laid their lines ove the SP
> mainline without notifying the railroad, thinking
> there were no trains on that line to Tracy. A 45
> mph freight neatly sliced their fully pressurized
> hoses leaving a fire crew very surprised.

Yup. Around 1989. West Pittsburg/McAvoy. Just north of the Acme Steel plant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/18 16:12 by carsoncity.

A few years ago there was a major commercial fire in the City of Industry along the UP LA Sub. The kind that takes a number of hours to get under control and a couple days to declare knockdown and overhaul complete. At some point I went to the back door of where I work (about a 1/4 west and also along the UP LA Sub) and I could see equipment on the road across the tracks, in addition to some spot fires occurring across the street. Knowing that the mid day EB Metrolink was due in about 10 minutes, I called the UP emergency number. I was told that yes the fire department called but a crew going by the area said the tracks were clear. I then made it very clear to them to stop all trains immediately as the tracks were no way considered clear.

I found out later from the LA County Fire Battalion Chief that made the original call that some one at UP got a butt chewing for saying the tracks were open without verifying with LA County Fire, the agency that made the origianl call to close the tracks.

A couple of thoughts looking at this thread...

1. 
DesertDon Wrote:
  Shunt the tracks with anything metal such
> as jumper cables or an aluminum ladder. 

This works if this section of track is dispatched with CTC. If not, you're wasting your time.

2. Operation Lifesaver provides training for 1st Responders for safety around railroad tracks: 
https://oli.org/training/emergency-responders/emergency-responders-resources

There is training available for police and fire departments for incidents around railroad tracks through Operation Lifesaver and the railroads..Make use of it and stay safe out there!

James Nelson
Thornton, CO
www.flickr.com/mojaveflyer

I think they were 5 seconds from equipment being hit, don't think they would have stayed on the track.

Knowledge of flagging would be good.  Placing an emergency vehicle at a grade crossing  or along ROW with a good line of sight should work?
Back in the day Red next to the track meant stop.

Bob

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something of a nervous Nellie if something is not
> quite right. The delay for slowing down is never
> as much as the delay from what might happen if
> something is out of place.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1077953,1078926#msg-1078926 Date: 01/14/06 10:28 Re: More about Hiland and train orders... Author: TAW

TAW

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never did get a thanks from
> any railroad officials.

It's just not written in the stars, FBE. To them, you got lucky they didn't have to "deal with you", and that is reward enough. 

Roadrailer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ALCO630 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's not the Chief's job
> > The comm center usually takes care of
> > notifications.
> >
> It is ultimately the responsibility of the
> on-scene Commanding officer to ensure scene
> safety. It is the task of the dispatch center to
> make notifications/requests to outside agencies.
>
> https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/10/train-nearl
> y-hits-crews-putting-out-two-alarm-fire-in-oakley/
>
> https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/crews-working-
> to-contain-fire-at-oakley-tire-shop/1512185019

Yes, believe me I know how it works. My point was the comm center is the one who makes the pho be call to the rr. NOT the incident commander.

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

Don't rely on a metal bar, ladder or jumper cables to shunt the circuit.  Even if it is signaled territory those items are just not reliable.