Western Railroad Discussion > A question I have never seen, but I would like the answer.

I have a friend that is a retired engineer and a conductor presently working for BNSF.  In thinking about them, I began to wonder:  Is an engineer ever called on to be a conductor on a freight train when a conductor is not available?  If he is, does he received his regular pay or is it less?

Yes, schedules differ, but he'd be compensated for a different class of service. Years ago it happened frequently, but just the opposite. Engineer boards were always cut thin, too thin, and the carrier would have to jump engineers up that were working on the ground. Took a few, too many, penalties before they decided to increase the engineers' board.  

Engineer is a promotion. On BNSF they can not demote you to a conductor/switchman. They can “promote” a conductor to a engineer but you don’t necisarly have to take the job.

At SEPTA, shortly after the takeover from Conrail in 1983, on a couple of occasions, we had no conductor for evening outbound trains from Reading Terminal.  We used engineers as conductors, and they complained that they could not cut cash fares.  I told them to forget about fare collection, most of our riders had monthly tickets, and just give the engineer two to go on the communicating signals.  No unfortunate incidents resulted.

Thanks for the comments, kinda answers my question.

The powers at the SP came around in the mid to late 80s wanting us to sign away our Firemans seniorty.  At the time, the BLE had the contracts for enginemen and the UTU had the Firemens contract.

They had tried this back in the 70s but the Coast kept what we had.  When the smoke cleared,  all the hostlers jobs were gone EXCEPT on the Coast.  They also kept any moves that the contract had, (Fireman on passenger, Fireman on work trains, etc. They also kept the so-called "Home Rule". 

I was standing in the crew dispatchers room in Dunsmuir. A suit, nobody knew would hit crews going on or off duty, to "Sign" this little paper he would say.  Thanks to a heads up from the City, very few signed it.

Fast forward a year or so, the SP tried again. Some guys that never had a firemans date found out the hard way.  If the carrier cut the board they would have to cut the amount of engineers  so engineers could work. (Agreement Provisions). Well, some of us bumped on pool to Roseville- Stockton as fireman. The others that didn't have firemans seniorty had to go where they could work. That was anywhere on the system that they could be a conductor. If he got the chance to be set back up, he would hi-tail it back to Dunsmuir or the nearest terminal where his "Date" let him run. 

There was something about Trainmans seniorty in this move but I don't remember all the ins and outs. I was in Engine Service so wasn't in their information pipe line.  Im sure someone on here has a better memory than I do. 

Stay tuned. Details at 11:00.



Nudge

CCDeWeese Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We used engineers as conductors, and
> they complained that they could not cut cash
> fares.  I told them to forget about fare
> collection, most of our riders had monthly
> tickets, and just give the engineer two to go on
> the communicating signals.  No unfortunate
> incidents resulted.

It would never ever ever ever fly now, but back when most of the folks I worked with were older than dirt and I trusted all of them, the trainmen board at Wishram (WA....BN) was empty, guys laying off sick...of Turn & Burn. There were engineers who wanted to work, so I used four of them on a couple of intermodal trains Wishram - Pasco - Wishram. Nobody complained, in fact, everyone was happy...except management, who were neither happy nor unhappy. They didn't notice.

TAW

He would just be conpensated the rate he went to work at.  So if he's a conductor, and gets callled to be an engineer, he'd make the engineer wages regardless if it pays less or more.  
It can get a little more complicated depending on agreements.  If he's working the pool and gets called for extra work, he might be entited to the pay he would've made on his turn AND the engineer wage.  
It can be a pain to be "setback" sometimes.  The conductor has to watch out for open engineer turns.  If he's first out he has to take the engineer call.  If he's several times out he doesn't.  

 

He could be called for extra work, but it shouldn’t be something they force you to accept.

I know some engineers who like to stay on the conductors extra boards that way they can be called as an engineer and make over and above guarantee.

Posted from iPhone

While dispatching the Soo Line back in the 90's, several times I would have a crew made up entirely of engineers, and everyone seemed to enjoy themselves, lol!

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Engineer is a promotion. On BNSF they can not
> demote you to a conductor/switchman. They can
> “promote” a conductor to a engineer but you
> don’t necisarly have to take the job.  

May I dispute this??  A friend who was an engineer got set back to conductor during a manpower reduction.  He's currently
back as an engineer, but you can be set back.  FWIW.

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

> May I dispute this??  A friend who was an
> engineer got set back to conductor during a
> manpower reduction.  He's currently
> back as an engineer, but you can be set back. 

What Pacific means is if you are holding an engineer spot they can’t call you for a conductor spot. But.. if you are an conductor they can call you to be an engineer.

ntharalson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pacific5th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Engineer is a promotion. On BNSF they can not
> > demote you to a conductor/switchman. They can
> > “promote” a conductor to a engineer but you
> > don’t necisarly have to take the job.  
>
> May I dispute this??  A friend who was an
> engineer got set back to conductor during a
> manpower reduction.  He's currently
> back as an engineer, but you can be set back. 
> FWIW.
>
> Nick Tharalson,
> Marion, IA

You can get cut back to a conductor, what they can’t do is call a “set up” engineer to work as a conductor.

Woodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...  Is an engineer ever called on to be a conductor on a freight train when a conductor is not available?

While Woodman is asking specifically about freight service, the same could be asked about Amtrak.  The answer is, or at least used to be, yes.  Three decades ago when I was working the PDX engineer's extra board I was called several times over a few years for a conductor or assistant conductor (Amtrak's name for brakeman) job and was paid at the engineer's hourly rate on each occasion.

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The powers at the SP came around in the mid to
> late 80s wanting us to sign away our Firemans
> seniorty.  At the time, the BLE had the contracts
> for enginemen and the UTU had the Firemens
> contract.
>
> They had tried this back in the 70s but the Coast
> kept what we had.  When the smoke cleared,  all
> the hostlers jobs were gone EXCEPT on the
> Coast.  They also kept any moves that the
> contract had, (Fireman on passenger, Fireman on
> work trains, etc. They also kept the so-called
> "Home Rule". 
>
> I was standing in the crew dispatchers room in
> Dunsmuir. A suit, nobody knew would hit crews
> going on or off duty, to "Sign" this little paper
> he would say.  Thanks to a heads up from the
> City, very few signed it.
>
> Fast forward a year or so, the SP tried again.
> Some guys that never had a firemans date found out
> the hard way.  If the carrier cut the board they
> would have to cut the amount of engineers  so
> engineers could work. (Agreement Provisions).
> Well, some of us bumped on pool to Roseville-
> Stockton as fireman. The others that didn't have
> firemans seniorty had to go where they could work.
> That was anywhere on the system that they could be
> a conductor. If he got the chance to be set back
> up, he would hi-tail it back to Dunsmuir or the
> nearest terminal where his "Date" let him run. 
>
> There was something about Trainmans seniorty in
> this move but I don't remember all the ins and
> outs. I was in Engine Service so wasn't in their
> information pipe line.  Im sure someone on here
> has a better memory than I do. 
>
> Stay tuned. Details at 11:00.
>
>
>
> Nudge

The hostlers contract ended on the old SO ,after the UP merger in 2018, when the last hostler retired on the LA service unit.

Also prior to the merger the SP have all of us engineer's were given a conductors seniority date. When the Coast reopened after the tunnel fire.. I bid in the Coast pool. I had the second westbound train up to SLO. The conductor I worked with going up was used a head of me on the return trip to LA. I was called as a conductor going eastbound on the OALAT with fellow engineer Jeff Stein.
The only time it ever happened to me.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/19 20:16 by SanJoaquinEngr.

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ntharalson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pacific5th Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Engineer is a promotion. On BNSF they can not
> > > demote you to a conductor/switchman. They can
> > > “promote” a conductor to a engineer but
> you
> > > don’t necisarly have to take the job.  
> >
> > May I dispute this??  A friend who was an
> > engineer got set back to conductor during a
> > manpower reduction.  He's currently
> > back as an engineer, but you can be set back. 
> > FWIW.
> >
> > Nick Tharalson,
> > Marion, IA
>
> You can get cut back to a conductor, what they
> can’t do is call a “set up” engineer to work
> as a conductor.

Thanks for the clarification.  
Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA