Steam & Excursion > The "Strong" In Armstrong Turntable-SP Narrow Gauge #22

While turntables came in all sizes to fit the needs of the various steam railroads they served, many of them still relied on the manpower of the engine crew themselves to manually turn their own engine.

No better example of this use of manpower in this age-old practice is the turning of Southern Pacific's narrow gauge #22 on the Keeler branch during the late 1930's. Here we see the 4-6-0 on a wooden "gallows style" turntable along the desert line. She is hopefully positioned in the very middle of the turntable so her weight is evenly distributed front to rear. This allows her to balance on the center bearing of the turntable and the crew can lean onto the arms on both ends of the table so she can be slowly turned with only the power of the crew men.

A few of these "Armstrong" type turntables still exist and are really something to see and to operate. One is in the Simpson Timber railroad in Shelton, Washington. Unfortunately, they only turn diesels on that table today, but still it is fun to see.

Martin



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/13 05:05 by LoggerHogger.

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Avoiding problems...

Many years ago, on the old M&P RR in Delta, PA --an excursion operation run by George Hart--- there was an Armstrong TT in Delta.
We used to turn Hart's smaller engines on it.....

One of the secrets was to start with a tender full of water ---- a light tender and the heavy engine makes for a miserable afternoon.

Even with powered old TTs, it makes a big difference to have a 'weighted' tender --- BEFORE attempting to turn the loco!

The load is best turned with the weight centered over the TT's center bearing,

Thanks for the post..

W.

Doesn't look like there's much room for error on engine length/turntable length there.

The weight of a center bearing turntable and the locomotive being turned is born by the turntables end wheels on the ring rail only while and engine is moving onto or off of the table. In fact, many Armstrong turntables did not have a ring rail at all, but only wooden blocks supporting the ends when an engine was driven on/off the table. The spider at the center of the table was about an inch or so higher than the ring rail or support blocks, so when driving the engine onto the table one can feel the table tip as the center of gravity of the engine reaches the center of the table. The engine is stopped then, perfectly balanced on the table.

-LD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/13 09:33 by LarryDoyle.

Great photo!

Steve Mitchell
http://www.yardgoatimages.com

That looks like the turntable at laws. It's still there and restored. It does have wheels and rail around the perimeter.

The gallows type turntable is my favorite. It evokes old west narrow gauge.

The water pump house with the servicing derrick is not visible in the historic photo. Were they still using the windmill driven pump (was not in the same location) at that time?

Mike Massee
Tehachapi, CA
Photography, Railroading and more..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/13 10:29 by Harlock.

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Here is the water well pump building in question. Also in perspective with the oil tank and water tank.

The Derrick was used to lift the pump out of the well when it needed repairs. It supplied the locomotive water tank as well as some of the buildings nearby such as the station and the agent's house.

Mike Massee
Tehachapi, CA
Photography, Railroading and more..

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I can say from experience that, with the V&T #25 on the turntable at the NSRRM, if the tender was full of oil and water, there was no room to get the weight centered, you just had to muscle it around.

Thanks for the great images!

I have a photo of a Union Pacific light 2-8-2 being turned in Kansas. That engine/tender would be at least double the weight of the SP NG engine. I have wondered how a crew of five men could be expected to manage such a task, but clearly it worked or something else would have been done. I believe the date in the photo is 1954.

John Bush
Omaha

OERM Perris CA built a new duplicate of the Laws turntable.

And we are rebuilding/recreating the water tank at Keeler with what is left of it. Mostly the metal parts.

BTW: Mike, are you the same Mike Massee that was in a recent Aero-Tech News article?

Mike Wissler

I used to Operate the Turn Table at Amtrak's Redondo Jct RH, and learned how important it was to have a Locomotive Balanced , more so with a Rain Slick Pit Rail

Mike excellent shots in Laws! I have similar ones from my visit in March.

Dennis Livesey
New York, NY

mikewiss Wrote:
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> And we are rebuilding/recreating the water tank at
> Keeler with what is left of it. Mostly the metal
> parts.
>
> BTW: Mike, are you the same Mike Massee that was
> in a recent Aero-Tech News article?
>
> Mike Wissler

Er, yup that's me. :)

Mike Massee
Tehachapi, CA
Photography, Railroading and more..

Hard on the knees, I bet.

4-12-2
Where abouts in KS is the pic. you have of turning a engine on a Armstrong TT? upkpfan

Haven't been to Laws in a very, very long time. Does the turntable work? I remember seeing it as kid, but I don't remember what condition it was in.

Nathan

In March 2013, I was told by a volunteer Max, that while they have done repairs to it and it moves, they did not used it for any big stuff i.e. the motor car. They just turn the small mining engine. Anything bigger and the table makes sounds you do not want to hear.

Dennis Livesey
New York, NY

Here is my photo of the Orange Empire Railway Museum's Grizzly Flats Gallows Turntable.
Taken last March. 2013.

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And the beginnings of the Keeler Water Tank.

--Jim Baker

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