European Railroad Discussion > Two-axle European freight cars?

I'm surprised to see that single axle cars are not only on the rails, but still offered in the portfolio of freight car manufacturers. I'm probably only surprised because of a US knowledge where capacity of freight cars has only gone up and up, from 50 tons, to 70, to 100, to 113 tons. The freight railroads partly claim they could only make money with the higher weights as their competitive edge against trucks. Of course, they also offer terrible service. So, I'm wondering, by contrast, how the european usage of smaller capacity cars functions. What is the total capacity of the single axle cars? Are they serving as what is called "less than truckload" in the US, or something similar, where railroads actually offer to carry smaller truck-sized amounts? Is service relatively fast and more competitive in that sense?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/18 06:53 by inCHI.

I'm struggling to think of any recently made single-axle ones in the UK ... that would limit a wagon in the UK to about 50 tonnes - not much use really..

exhaustED Wrote:
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> I'm struggling to think of any recently made
> single-axle ones in the UK ... that would limit a
> wagon in the UK to about 50 tonnes - not much use
> really..

In this case, I was looking at Greenbrier's Europe Rail product listing, which includes 2-axle sliding wall wagons.

https://www.gbrx.com/manufacturing/europe-rail/general-purpose-wagons/

In the UK twin axle freight cars are rapidly disappearing, Network Rail are encouraging wagon leasing companies to replace the remaining two axle vehicles with bogie vehicles by offering lower access charges.

These UK sand hoppers (wagon type PAA) are typical two axle hoppers, weighing 13.5 tonnes empty and 37.5 tonnes full. They were built in the early 1980s. These are used in a daily or twice daily flow of industrial sand from Middleton Towers (near King's Lynn in Norfolk) to the glass factories at Barnby Dun (near Doncaster in South Yorkshire) or Goole in East Yorkshire, a distance by train of about 150 miles each way. They operate as a fixed formation unit train with wagons just being removed for maintenance or if they develop a fault, no switching enroute takes place.

---

I am having a hard time envisioning what a single-axle car would look like, or even how it could stay on the rails.

I'm not located in Europe, but follow it closely. On the continent, it seems that deliveries of new 2-axle freight cars are still taking place. My "educated guess" is that their model for profit is just different than it is in the U.S., but also that it's a very highly truck competitive area. U.S. freight railroads focus on large volume shipments more than trying to take freight off the roads, or at least it seems that way for the most part.

The majority of freight cars in Europe do seem to be going to 4-axle designs, but some market segments (like the slide wall cars, you noted) still seem to favor the 2-axle cars. It probably doesn't matter much to be able to obtain U.S. style load weights in the cars, because the European's are very weight sensitive and don't like damage that heavy weight does to the track structure. The brochure you linked shows the slide wall cars as allowing 45 tons cargo weight.

The slide wall cars tend to be mostly for lighter weight cargo, that cubes out before reaching weight maximums. Maybe they like the flexibility of the smaller cars, not sure why they keep favoring 2 axle designs for that trade (or auto racks also, by the way). Outside of one extra coupling, two of the 2 axle cars is basically the same as a single 4 axle car - so it would be interesting to know the "inside" reasons for still favoring the 2 axle cars.

Bunny218 Wrote:
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> The slide wall cars tend to be mostly for lighter
> weight cargo, that cubes out before reaching
> weight maximums. Maybe they like the flexibility
> of the smaller cars, not sure why they keep
> favoring 2 axle designs for that trade (or auto
> racks also, by the way). Outside of one extra
> coupling, two of the 2 axle cars is basically the
> same as a single 4 axle car - so it would be
> interesting to know the "inside" reasons for still
> favoring the 2 axle cars.

Shippers that still use carload freight, but don't need as much product as would fill a large 4-axle freight car.
In a video about B-Cargo(now Lineas) the freight arm of the Belgian National Railways(SNCB/NMBS) the showed a 2-axle
Sliding Wall Van being loaded with Pallets of Pringle's Potato Crisps at a transload center in Boom, BE for a customer
in Augsberg, DE.

Bunny218 Wrote:
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> I'm not located in Europe, but follow it closely.
> On the continent, it seems that deliveries of new
> 2-axle freight cars are still taking place. My
> "educated guess" is that their model for profit is
> just different than it is in the U.S., but also
> that it's a very highly truck competitive area.
> U.S. freight railroads focus on large volume
> shipments more than trying to take freight off the
> roads, or at least it seems that way for the most
> part.


You're right in that Europe and the US have completely different models of Railfreight operation, largely because of the geographical differences. In Europe freight is a much more niche operation for many railways, with low levels of en route sorting, high speeds of operation with shorter trains.

While it is dangerous to generalise, because some nations such as Germany have quite a high volume of general mixed freight travelling by rail, and others such as the UK operate almost exclusively permanently coupled unit trains for bulk goods or intermodal containers, virtually all freight operators are subsidiary to the main passenger businesses which dominate rail operation over much of Europe.

In this respect of course railways are little different from most other aspects of human behaviour, where one should never assume that North American practices apply elsewhere in the civilised world. It must be remembered that most English speakers do not use American, and that until the Chinese started to drive cars most drivers globally used the left hand side of the road.

It would be wonderful if we had the conditions for US style freight operations on our railways, but sadly we simply do not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/18 09:59 by spflow.

I'm probably wrong, but I think the two axles ride better (less rocking) than ones with two trucks. However if a wheel were to break, I believe the two axles cars would be more prone to derailing.

spflow Wrote:
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> You're right in that Europe and the US have
> completely different models of Railfreight
> operation, largely because of the geographical
> differences. In Europe freight is a much more
> niche operation for many railways, with low levels
> of en route sorting, high speeds of operation with
> shorter trains.
>
> While it is dangerous to generalise, because some
> nations such as Germany have quite a high volume
> of general mixed freight travelling by rail, and
> others such as the UK operate almost exclusively
> permanently coupled unit trains for bulk goods or
> intermodal containers, virtually all freight
> operators are subsidiary to the main passenger
> businesses which dominate rail operation over much
> of Europe.


The only quibble I have with this is the part where it says that virtually all freight operators are
subsidiaries of the national passenger operators. The fact is that there are over 50 operators of freight
trains in Germany, though many are quite small, plus many are operated by subsidiaries of the national railways of the surrounding
countries. Combined Captrain(SNCF Fret), SBB Cargo International, TX Logistik(Trenitalia) Rail Cargo Deutschland (ÖBB),
PKP Cargo, have about 33% of the market share in Germany, DB Cargo(deja vu all over again) has about 33% of the
market share. And the remaining third is split by the 50 or so smaller companies. And Intermodal operations are
way different than in the US as in mainland Europe the IMCs are the dominant force. The two largest IMCs are
Kombiverkehr(Germany) and Hupac(Switzerland). In the case of Kombiverkehr AG it is owned 50% by some subsidiary of DB AG,
and the other 50 is owned by roughly 230 Freight Fowarders or 3PL companies. However by rule established in the Articles
of Incorporation DB AG only gets two out of the nine seats on the Board of Directors. The situation at Hupac is a bit simpler.
DB AG owns 10%, SBB Cargo AG owns 18%, and the remaining 72% is owned by Freight Forwarders and 3PLs. The majority of the
72% ownership is controlled by just 3 companies, Hoyer AG(germany), Bertschi AG(Switzerland), and Dachser AG(Germany), all
3PLs.

SOO6617 Wrote:
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> The only quibble I have with this is the part
> where it says that virtually all freight operators
> are
> subsidiaries of the national passenger operators.

To be fair spflow said subsidiary to rather than subsidiary of, and that is true. Passenger trains do tend to rule Western European tracks, with some exceptions such as the Malmbanan in Sweden and the Betuweroute in the Netherlands. The sort of delays which freight railroads in the US impose on Amtrak would be unconscionable to European rail passengers.

86235 Wrote:
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> SOO6617 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The only quibble I have with this is the part
> > where it says that virtually all freight
> operators
> > are
> > subsidiaries of the national passenger
> operators.
>
> To be fair spflow said subsidiary to rather than
> subsidiary of, and that is true. Passenger trains
> do tend to rule Western European tracks, with some
> exceptions such as the Malmbanan in Sweden and the
> Betuweroute in the Netherlands. The sort of delays
> which freight railroads in the US impose on Amtrak
> would be unconscionable to European rail
> passengers.


Thank you. That was really my point. Ownership of passenger services is equally complex and in relatively few countries do they simply belong to single state owned operator. The real point lies in the difference between the relative roles of passenger and freight in much of Europe and those in the United States. Less than 5% of UK route mileage is freight only, while over 25% is effectively passenger only. The website www.realtimetrains.co.uk goves a very vivid picture of UK train operations. In Ireland I believe that the number of freight trains operating daily can on average be counted in single digits. Some nations, notably Germany Austria and Switzerland do have much more in the freight operations, but they are still having to share their tracks with high levels of frequent passenger service.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/18 10:32 by spflow.

spflow Wrote:
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> In Ireland I believe that the number of freight trains
> operating daily can on average be counted in
> single digits.

On one hand!

Thanks, interesting points.

I should be noted however that at least in much of Germany and Switzerland lines that you might think are primarily passenger lines may host more freight trains than passenger trains even in daylight hours.
This includes mainlines on both sides of the Rhein River from Köln to Mainz and then the Main-Neckar-bahn south to Mannheim, and on to Basel, Switzerland.

ts1457 Wrote:
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> I am having a hard time envisioning what a
> single-axle car would look like, or even how it
> could stay on the rails.


They existed! There is one in the collection of the National Railway Museum of the Netherlands. It is a tram railway flatcar from the Nederlandsche Tramweg Maatschappij (NTM):
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spoorwegmuseum_wagen_NTM_G1.JPG

grether Wrote:
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> They existed! There is one in the collection of
> the National Railway Museum of the Netherlands.
> It is a tram railway flatcar from the
> Nederlandsche Tramweg Maatschappij (NTM):
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spoorwegmu
> seum_wagen_NTM_G1.JPG

Wow, thanks.

I wonder how long it took to give up on that idea?

Jack

SOO6617 Wrote:
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> I should be noted however that at least in much of
> Germany and Switzerland lines that you might think
> are primarily passenger lines may host more
> freight trains than passenger trains even in
> daylight hours.
> This includes mainlines on both sides of the Rhein
> River from Köln to Mainz and then the
> Main-Neckar-bahn south to Mannheim, and on to
> Basel, Switzerland.

But such lines are not typical for Germany. Especially the Rhein River lines are paralleled by a new high speed line Frankfurt - Köln which carries ICE trains only.

Erwin from Austria

SOO6617 Wrote:
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> I should be noted however that at least in much of
> Germany and Switzerland lines that you might think
> are primarily passenger lines may host more
> freight trains than passenger trains even in
> daylight hours.

...as in https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/attachments/fullsize/1221000/peine_traffic.jpg

TAW

ts1457 Wrote:
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>
> Wow, thanks.
>
> I wonder how long it took to give up on that
> idea?
>
> Jack

I am guessing you only uncouple when the car is unloaded.