Eastern Railroad Discussion > EHH says CP has a buyer for D&H

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-01/canadian-pacific-sees-profit-doubling-by-2018-as-revenue-climbs.html

Relevant excerpt: "...Harrison also said the railroad has an agreement to sell its Delaware & Hudson Railway. He didn’t elaborate and said he wasn’t at liberty to disclose the buyer..."

Guess he finally agreed with all the rumors we railfans have been mongering over the past several years! ;-)

Maybe at the sale, Don Henley will sing his new song "End Of The D&H" (A revival of his '88 hit "End Of The Innocence!")

Remember when the trains were long and rolled beneath a deep blue sky
Didn't have a care in the world with DOT standing by
Fed intervention often fails and we've been poisoned by CP fairy tales
The lawyers clean up all details since Guilford had to fly
But I know a place where we can go still run well by men
We'll sit and watch NS roll by, their profits wave in the wind
Just stick your head back in the sand, competition all around you offer up your best defense but this is the end. This is the end of the D&H!!!

Chad Tyk

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So conventional wisdom says NS.

But are there any dark horses for the D&H? G&W, Watco, the group that purchased the MM&A, Pan-An, etc.

I would guess that NS is the only class 1 with an interest.

Kris

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The d&h south end is the missing link between Harrisburg, Binghamton and the Pan Am connection at Mechanicsville, NY for Norfolk Southern. Plus, per the NS trackage rights agreement with CP that NS signed when their Buffalo Line trains came over to the d&h in 2002, the NS has first right of refusal to the d&h south end in the event of a sale. A short line/ regional would never work, there's virtually no online business left between Mechanicville and Sunbury, Pa.

Chad Tyk

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If EHH is going to double the length of its trains, I am glad he will sell D&H, because there are no sidings that can take such trains, except maybe Ballston Spa, which was a Stimulus project, which they would not have gotten were it not for the Adirondack.

the buyer is NS with signal upgrades, trackwork and extended sidings coming as NS has the cash right now.

nygiant Wrote:
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> the buyer is NS with signal upgrades, trackwork
> and extended sidings coming as NS has the cash
> right now.


The version of the rumor that I had heard, though, was that CP was going to keep the D&H between Albany and Montreal.

I wonder if any equipment would be included in the deal or if it is just the row


Ernie

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wmfan3798 Wrote:
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> I wonder if any equipment would be included in the
> deal or if it is just the row
>
>

If NS is indeed the buyer, I'd be surprised if anything beyond the physical and related plant is included -- no rolling stock. How off-site dispatching control would be transferred, I don't know, but it would be -- probably just create an additional dispatching desk at Harrisburg.

A regional operator would need locomotives, but they wouldn't necessarily come from CP. But I agree, there's little potential for the D&H to be picked up by a regional. Lots of miles, little on-line traffic. NS is the obvious candidate given the volume of trains they're now running over the D&H via trackage rights.

What happened when Guilford divested of D&H - did engines (and freight cars) go to them or stay with D&H ?

Just pure crazy talk here, I am also thinking the section of the D&H being sold would be south of Albany. The crude oil traffic into Albany has got to be a huge source of revenue for CP and I cant see them giving that up.

So what if the NS fronted the money and folded the remainder into the NYS&W (which they also partially control) would there be any benefit? As a "local" railroad the NYS&W has been very adept at obtaining state funding for upgrades to their lines, even lines owned by NS under long term lease to the NYS&W sub CNYK - (Delaware Division) NS would still run the overhead traffic but NYS&W would do the local work and maintain everything. NS has done that with the Reading and Northern so there is further precedent in this region.

Again just speculating.

CV the civil e in NJ

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> What happened when Guilford divested of D&H - did
> engines (and freight cars) go to them or stay with
> D&H ?


Ten GP38-2s, 20 GP39-2s, and six C424m locomotives stayed with the D&H. The 20 former D&H 7600-series GP39-2s that GTI had reassigned to B&M as B&M350-369 and the ex-D&H U23Bs that were reassigned to Maine Central in the MEC280+ number series stayed with Guilford. I don't know what happened regarding freight cars. I'm pretty sure that by the time this all occurred, all the D&H U33Cs had been retired.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/14 07:48 by toledopatch.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What happened when Guilford divested of D&H -
> did
> > engines (and freight cars) go to them or stay
> with
> > D&H ?
>
>
> Ten GP38-2s, 20 GP39-2s, and six C424m locomotives
> went back to D&H. The 20 former D&H 7600-series
> GP39-2s that GTI had reassigned to B&M as
> B&M350-369 and the ex-D&H U23Bs that were
> reassigned to Maine Central in the MEC280+ number
> series stayed with Guilford. I don't know what
> happened regarding freight cars.


Add to your totals 5 RS11/36's that were still around.

Maybe something like the former Erie. NS owns it but leases it to one short line or another.
Interesting that N&W once owned D&H and EL via subsidiary Dereco.

NYSWSD70M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > joemvcnj Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What happened when Guilford divested of D&H -
> > did
> > > engines (and freight cars) go to them or stay
> > with
> > > D&H ?
> >
> >
> > Ten GP38-2s, 20 GP39-2s, and six C424m
> locomotives
> > went back to D&H. The 20 former D&H 7600-series
> > GP39-2s that GTI had reassigned to B&M as
> > B&M350-369 and the ex-D&H U23Bs that were
> > reassigned to Maine Central in the MEC280+
> number
> > series stayed with Guilford. I don't know what
> > happened regarding freight cars.
>
>
> Add to your totals 5 RS11/36's that were still
> around.


Thanks - I had forgotten about those. D&H 5009, 5016, 5017, 5022, 5023 if I recall correctly. Unlike the other fleets, none of these ever got Guilford paint or numbers.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NYSWSD70M Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > toledopatch Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > joemvcnj Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What happened when Guilford divested of D&H
> -
> > > did
> > > > engines (and freight cars) go to them or
> stay
> > > with
> > > > D&H ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Ten GP38-2s, 20 GP39-2s, and six C424m
> > locomotives
> > > went back to D&H. The 20 former D&H
> 7600-series
> > > GP39-2s that GTI had reassigned to B&M as
> > > B&M350-369 and the ex-D&H U23Bs that were
> > > reassigned to Maine Central in the MEC280+
> > number
> > > series stayed with Guilford. I don't know
> what
> > > happened regarding freight cars.
> >
> >
> > Add to your totals 5 RS11/36's that were still
> > around.
>
>
> Thanks - I had forgotten about those. D&H 5009,
> 5016, 5017, 5022, 5023 if I recall correctly.
> Unlike the other fleets, none of these ever got
> Guilford paint or numbers.


Yeah I think some made it to CP.

NYSWSD70M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Thanks - I had forgotten about those. D&H 5009,
> > 5016, 5017, 5022, 5023 if I recall correctly.
> > Unlike the other fleets, none of these ever got
> > Guilford paint or numbers.
>
>
> Yeah I think some made it to CP.

For a very short time, right after CP acquired the property from the bankruptcy trustee.

I shot 5009(I think) in Aug '92 at BD. Would post but its a print and buried in some album somewhere in my office.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nygiant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > the buyer is NS with signal upgrades, trackwork
> > and extended sidings coming as NS has the cash
> > right now.
>
>
> The version of the rumor that I had heard, though,
> was that CP was going to keep the D&H between
> Albany and Montreal.

The quote from the link the OP posted specifically says the southern portion of the D&H. Likely the CP would hang on to the line from Rouses Point to Albany, and the segment into Mohawk Yd.

SOO6617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > nygiant Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > the buyer is NS with signal upgrades,
> trackwork
> > > and extended sidings coming as NS has the
> cash
> > > right now.
> >
> >
> > The version of the rumor that I had heard,
> though,
> > was that CP was going to keep the D&H between
> > Albany and Montreal.
>
> The quote from the link the OP posted specifically
> says the southern portion of the D&H. Likely the
> CP would hang on to the line from Rouses Point to
> Albany, and the segment into Mohawk Yd.

I wonder if NS will gain access to the Port of Albany. This would allow NS to go head to head with CSX on BNSF originated oil.

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