Model Railroading > Overland out of brass business?

Forgive me if I sound confused. In looking at Overland's web site and various brass distributor's websites,
I notice that the whole NS Heritage series in brass is still being offered on reservation status? (reservations started in 2012, I believe,) In fact, Overland's website lists some as "Stand By' status, which in the past has meant that delivery was imminent. I have heard that Overland psosted something to the effect that they are "temporarily" out of the brass business, but I haven't heard any more. And yes, I have contacted overland directly, but have never been able to get through due to their apparent Spam filters" which seem to screen out a lot of ISP providers' emails, apparently including mine.

Please, not a brass vs, plastic issue or a cost issue....just a straight answer would be appreciated.

Auburnrail

"Please, not a brass vs, plastic issue or a cost issue....just a straight answer would be appreciated."

It does come down to that. When you can get what you want in plastic with the amount of sharp crisp detail why spend the extra cash on brass. I'm not bashing brass just laying out the facts.

But it goes one step beyond that. Because the key to brass is that they could make money with smaller runs of things that no one was (seemingly) ever going to come out with in plastic. The example of the NS Heritage units is a good one - note that you can get those locomotives in plastic.

In addition, one of the primary reasons for some, was paint. Plastic didn't have quality intricate paint for a long time - when you started seeing well done early MP or the Rocket schemes, that bubble was burst.

Brass (Overland, esp.) used to be able to carve out a niche of newer prototypes/rarer prototypes/specific prototypical details and/or intricate paint schemes. Plastic has reversed that to a wide degree.

Attempting to restrict the answers to what you want is not going to provide you with "straight answers". Perhaps (your statement) was poorly worded, but....the core reasons are a direct result of those restricted subjects. I know the trend today is "tell me what I want to hear, not the truth - ANYTHING, but not the truth (thank media trends for that)." But...like it or not - those are directly related to the issue.

Note that this answer is restricted to the specific products Overland made in relation to your statement - not directed at steam, passenger, freight, or cabooses.

EL-SD45-3632 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Please, not a brass vs, plastic issue or a cost
> issue....just a straight answer would be
> appreciated."
>
> It does come down to that. When you can get what
> you want in plastic with the amount of sharp crisp
> detail why spend the extra cash on brass. I'm not
> bashing brass just laying out the facts.

Overland Models is not out of business. They are currently focusing their efforts on the Overland Hobbies side of the business at this moment, as has been discussed before.

If you have any questions, rather than fuel rumors here, you can certainly reach Brian Marsh directly on the phone number listed at the Overland Models or Overland Hobbies website.

Russ

NSTopHat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Overland Models is not out of business. They are
> currently focusing their efforts on the Overland
> Hobbies side of the business at this moment, as
> has been discussed before.
>
> If you have any questions, rather than fuel rumors
> here, you can certainly reach Brian Marsh directly
> on the phone number listed at the Overland Models
> or Overland Hobbies website.
>
> Russ

My statement was not that Overland was out of business,...only that they seem to be out of the BRASS business....in spite of the fact that the NS Heritage models are still listed on their and other dealers websites as future and "stand by" deliveries. And yes, I had some orders in and am a long time purchaser of their excellent models in the past.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/15 10:40 by Auburnrail.

They are extremely concentrated on the "Overland Hobbies" side of the business. I believe that the "Brass" is under consideration but likely the future will be more inclined toward O scale models if at all. I do note that Brian has virtually wiped out a HO project that I was interested in; his International wide vision cabooses. Ed Austin (North Bank Line) was going to use this run through OMI to produce another run of SP&S plus the McCloud River short caboose. The production costs were so high that Ed cancelled the NBL's involvement as he felt most would not pay the price.

Personally, I would not expect to see very much in HO anymore but that door could open both ways.

Rick

The cost of brass has gotten so prohibitive that importers must pick and choose very carefully. I'm not sure how many builders are left. The one who seems to be the industry standard is Boo-Rim. I don't know if he builds diesels, but his steam models are some of the best I've ever seen. However you pay for that quality.
There used to be several builders in Korea years ago, and the quality of some of the models left a lot to be desired. OMI started using Ajin and the quality of his models skyrocketed.
Life ain't easy for importers.

i have a significant deposit down on these heritage units with a reputable brass dealer. i would hate to cancel my order then have overland begin production in the near future, but it seems that there is very little confidence that this will ever happen.

I have quietly stood by for years and read the many, many brass versus plastic arguments, and chosen to remain quite on the subject. But this time, I can't. The gentleman that began this thread CLEARLY stated he was not trying to provoke a brass versus plastic issue. He was looking for a simple answer to a simple question. Yet, the two first respondents just had to do exactly that, make it a brass versus plastic issue. The fact is, brass is a PASSION, and not a matter of practicality or cost. If you've got the brass bug, then no increase in detail, no increase in quality of paint work on plastic models is going to make a darn bit of difference. It has become quite obvious to me that this is something you brass bashers will just never get. So, why can't you just leave it alone? ; and chock it off the the huge diversity that exists in the world of model railroading. Why not graciously give others the right to exercise their own tastes without criticism. The more I read about the subject, the more it seems to come down to simple envy, an that is not at all flattering to the people who insist on cutting down brass collectors. To many, like myself, and the author of this thread, brass is something to be cherished. To others, the same passion is just not there. Brass buyers are just as much entitled to our preferences as you are, so for god's sake, leave us the hell alone.

Steve

Well said.
~Steve (IC1026)

Posted from Android

I agree love my brass models

rschonfelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do note that Brian has virtually
> wiped out a HO project that I was interested in;
> his International wide vision cabooses.

That's a bummer. I've been looking forward to one of the DODX cabooses for a long time. I hope they can turn it around someday, but I'll survive without it.

Dave

In my eye, brass model trains are a form of fine art.

Incredible skill and finesse is required of the craftsman who creates these pieces.

It's beautiful, man.

Posted from Android

DG .
Unknown, US

As I have said before: Brass will live forever and will give someone who's interested 100 years from now in what trains looked like
"back then" something true to the prototype to look at. Plastic is, well, plastic. Can't take the heat and prone to depolymerization.

Yes, brass is a handmade work of art, not a 3 second shot into an injection mold. If it's not dropped it will outlive many, many generations and will in fact become a historic artifact.

Just my opinion,
Auburnrail

smallplanet2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have quietly stood by for years and read the
> many, many brass versus plastic arguments, and
> chosen to remain quite on the subject. But this
> time, I can't. The gentleman that began this
> thread CLEARLY stated he was not trying to provoke
> a brass versus plastic issue. He was looking for a
> simple answer to a simple question. Yet, the two
> first respondents just had to do exactly that,
> make it a brass versus plastic issue. The fact is,
> brass is a PASSION, and not a matter of
> practicality or cost. If you've got the brass bug,
> then no increase in detail, no increase in quality
> of paint work on plastic models is going to make a
> darn bit of difference. It has become quite
> obvious to me that this is something you brass
> bashers will just never get. So, why can't you
> just leave it alone? ; and chock it off the the
> huge diversity that exists in the world of model
> railroading. Why not graciously give others the
> right to exercise their own tastes without
> criticism. The more I read about the subject, the
> more it seems to come down to simple envy, an that
> is not at all flattering to the people who insist
> on cutting down brass collectors. To many, like
> myself, and the author of this thread, brass is
> something to be cherished. To others, the same
> passion is just not there. Brass buyers are just
> as much entitled to our preferences as you are, so
> for god's sake, leave us the hell alone.
>
> Steve


Where in my post did I "Bash" brass? ALL that I said was plastic has come a long way with detail and paint and at the same time so has brass. I remember the days when you could not get say an Alco or FM in plastic and the only choice was brass, albeit, somewhat crude and the running qualities were crap but I still bought it though, and plastic was not much better back in the early 70's. And it's not simple ENVY, I just don't care to own brass for me, plastic is my choice, both for looks and price, simple as that. I did not criticize you or anyone for collecting brass just posted my opinion, if you choose to take it the wrong way it may be time to take another look at your passion. Remember what you mentioned about railroading, "Why not graciously give others the right to exercise their own tastes without criticism." That statement can be said about both sides of this issue.

smallplanet2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have quietly stood by for years and read the
> many, many brass versus plastic arguments, and
> chosen to remain quite on the subject. But this
> time, I can't. The gentleman that began this
> thread CLEARLY stated he was not trying to provoke
> a brass versus plastic issue. He was looking for a
> simple answer to a simple question. Yet, the two
> first respondents just had to do exactly that,
> make it a brass versus plastic issue. The fact is,
> brass is a PASSION, and not a matter of
> practicality or cost. If you've got the brass bug,
> then no increase in detail, no increase in quality
> of paint work on plastic models is going to make a
> darn bit of difference. It has become quite
> obvious to me that this is something you brass
> bashers will just never get. So, why can't you
> just leave it alone? ; and chock it off the the
> huge diversity that exists in the world of model
> railroading. Why not graciously give others the
> right to exercise their own tastes without
> criticism. The more I read about the subject, the
> more it seems to come down to simple envy, an that
> is not at all flattering to the people who insist
> on cutting down brass collectors. To many, like
> myself, and the author of this thread, brass is
> something to be cherished. To others, the same
> passion is just not there. Brass buyers are just
> as much entitled to our preferences as you are, so
> for god's sake, leave us the hell alone.
>
> Steve

I think you lose sight of the fact that while brass is certainly a nice piece of craftsmanship in most cases, the market for brass is extraordinarily small when compared to the one for plastic. As such, when you see a post on message board such as TO, where the population of plastic vs. brass people is probably a 5 to 1 ratio, or likely much more, the preponderance of comments are going to be towards plastic. It's simple numbers, there are more of us than there are you. Being annoyed because of it does little more than show a sensitivity most people don't get, or more importantly don't care about.

Point is, if you don't want to be barraged by opinions of how great plastic is over brass, then you should consider participating in a specialized forum that deals in brass. But expecting everyone who prefers plastic for economical or functional reasons to make special considerations for brass lovers and "leave you the hell alone" is kind like cutting the grass while your house is on fire. You'll be wasting time & energy, and your house will still burn down.

This is a hilarious post. I love this part the most

"Plastic is, well, plastic. Can't take the heat and prone to depolymerization."

I just went down to my layout and checked out my plastic diesels to see if they were depolymerizing.

I can't tell. So Mr. Auburn, or is that Mr. Rail, can u help me understand what happens here so I can repair the depolymerization?

By the way, here's a beauty from the brass world.

Pure art. I can't wait to see the person who comes across this beauty in 200-300 years and is just blown away by its historical and artistic beauty!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALCO-HO-Brass-SD-40H-Southern-Custom-Paint-/261804294343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf4c080c7

Bruce

Are we having fun yet!


Auburnrail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I have said before: Brass will live forever and
> will give someone who's interested 100 years from
> now in what trains looked like
> "back then" something true to the prototype to
> look at. Plastic is, well, plastic. Can't take the
> heat and prone to depolymerization.
>
> Yes, brass is a handmade work of art, not a 3
> second shot into an injection mold. If it's not
> dropped it will outlive many, many generations and
> will in fact become a historic artifact.
>
> Just my opinion,
> Auburnrail

"Please, not a brass vs, plastic issue or a cost issue....just a straight answer would be appreciated."

19 posts, not s single one addressing the original question. I think I made my point

smallplanet2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Please, not a brass vs, plastic issue or a cost
> issue....just a straight answer would be
> appreciated."
>
> 19 posts, not s single one addressing the original
> question. I think I made my point

Only partially, there are two answers earlier in the thread where it was pretty clearly stated that Overland was focusing more on the "Overland Hobbies" brand as opposed to brass imports. Once that answer was given, it became a free for all, and rightfully so.

Whew, no depolymer...whatever on my layout either...

priceless LOL!

Sean Steele
London, ON