Passenger Trains > Southwest Chief Routing Question

How much of the current Amtrak Southwest Chief routing is the same as the original Santa Fe Super Chief along with the original Santa Fe El Capitan?

Except for the route from Galesburg to Chicgao it is about the same.

Today's train goes San Bernardino-LA via Riverside and Fullerton, the old "Third District."

The original Super-El Cap went via Pasadena and the old "Second District."
Today, this line comprises Metrolink's San Gabriel Sub from San Bernardino to Claremont and Metro Rail's Gold Line from the site of the former ATSF "Chapman" siding in Pasadena to the LA River bridge near LAUPT.

Add to the above postings-the original train went to Dearborn Station in Chicago and ran via the Eastern Division Second District between Holiday and NR Jct Emporia, KS.

Bob

What trains went over what is known as the Belen Cutoff?

Also, the AT&SF "Super Chief" did not stop at Topeka, but ran from Kansas City to Newton via the main line as noted by BNSF Bob. Other ATSF trains such as the "San Fransico Chief" (I think) ran via Topeka.

jp1822 Wrote:
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> What trains went over what is known as the Belen
> Cutoff?

The San Francisco Chief would be the first
one to come to mind; before the SF Chief
started (1954), the Grand Canyon sometimes
ran in two sections, one via La Junta
and one via Amarillo. Earlier, the Scout
always? ran via Amarillo.

The Super Chief and Chief run exact lines, or was the Super, well, different?

The Chief and Super Chief being premier and fastest trains ran the fastest route. SanBerdoo via Pasadena and the main line via ABQ, Ottawa cutoff and KC to Chi.

dzeph Wrote:
---------------------------------------------
> The Chief and Super Chief being premier and
> fastest trains ran the fastest route.

You remember the Super C inaugural ran Corwith
to LA in less than 35 hours, via Amarillo.
I'm too lazy to do a careful comparison,
but it's not obvious that the northern
route was a faster route than the southern.
(More freight interference, of course, but
the RR itself may have been just as fast.)

dzeph Wrote:
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> The Chief and Super Chief being premier and
> fastest trains ran the fastest route. SanBerdoo
> via Pasadena and the main line via ABQ, Ottawa
> cutoff and KC to Chi.

My 1966 AT&SF TT shows the following major transcontinental trains via Topeka:

SF Chief
Chief


Via Second District (aka: Ottawa Cutoff; 15 miles/~25 mins shorter):

Grand Canyon
Super Chief/El Capitan


Via Belen Cutoff:

SF Chief


Via LaJ (same distance as via Belen; about 1.5 hours faster):

Grand Canyon
Super Chief/El Capitan
Chief


Via Fullerton:

Grand Canyon


Via Pasadena (13 miles and about ~16 min shorter)

Super Chief/El Capitan
Chief

timz Wrote:
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> dzeph Wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------

> You remember the Super C inaugural ran Corwith
> to LA in less than 35 hours, via Amarillo.


Really? I always thought the press run of Super 2 in 1937 of 36+ was the fastest LA-CHI run ever. Maybe just passenger?

Gotta also remember, they ran most of those trains up to 100 MPH!

As I recall the Trains headline at the time was 34 hrs, 35 minutes, and something seconds for the pair of FP45s with fourteen cars or whatever it was. That Frailey article in some 1980s Trains would give the time too-- in any case it was less than the Super Chief 36 hrs 49 minutes. (Probably just from Corwith to Hobart, tho.)

And besides leaving from Union Station instead of Dearborn, it now goes over the old CB&Q to Galesburg, and then joins the old ATSF just west of town

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dzeph Wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------
> > The Chief and Super Chief being premier and
> > fastest trains ran the fastest route.
>
> You remember the Super C inaugural ran Corwith
> to LA in less than 35 hours, via Amarillo.
> I'm too lazy to do a careful comparison,
> but it's not obvious that the northern
> route was a faster route than the southern.
> (More freight interference, of course, but
> the RR itself may have been just as fast.)

The route via La Junta had many 100 mph stretches. The route via Amarillo did not.

Yeah, SFe never installed ATS there, so 79 there, but for all we know it still may be as fast as the northern route-- and if not, it likely would be as fast with equal signalling.

I only checked the 1956-58 timetables-- in 56-57 the difference between 1/2 and 17/18 Newton to Gallup was 10-15 minutes. (In 1958, for some reason, the differnce was a lot more.) And if we're looking for the fastest route we'll run via El Dorado rather than Newton.