Passenger Trains > Dead Metrolink engineer let railfans sit at controls

This revelation will cause railfans to be scorned and persecuted! And most of us have no intention of wrecking a train.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/03/rail-enthusisas.html

The engineer suspected of causing the Sept. 12 Metrolink catastrophe in Chatsworth not only allowed rail enthusiasts into the cab of moving trains but also let them sit at the controls, according to text messages released today at a hearing by federal investigators.

Two days before the crash, Metrolink engineer Robert M. Sanchez sent a cellphone text message arranging another ride-along and said, "this time I'm taking a picture of you @ da throttle!!!"

Planning for the evening ride-along on the day of the crash, Sanchez texted one of the rail enthusiasts: "yea...but I’m REALLY looking forward to getting you in the cab and showing you how to run a locomotive."

The recipient, identified as "Person A," responded: "Omg [oh, my God] dude me too. Running a locomotive. Having all of that in the palms of my hands. Its a great feeling. And ill do it so good from all my practice on the simulator.”

Sanchez answered: "I’m gonna do all the radio talkin’...ur gonna run the locomotive & I’m gonna tell u how to do it."

The Times reported last week that the messages indicated Sanchez allowed teens to ride in Metrolink cabs, a serious violations of safety rules. Though it does not appear Sanchez had riders in the cab the day Metrolink commuter train 111 crashed into a Union Pacific freight train sharing the same track, he made plans to meet up and allow the rail buffs on board to operate a train later that evening, the records show. Officials with the National Transportation Safety Board said today the ride-along violated federal and local regulations.

The new details emerged from the NTSB, which opened a two-day Washington hearing on the collision that killed 25 and injured 135.

Sanchez also sent and received dozens of text messages while on duty the day of the crash, including one shortly before the two trains collided, federal investigators said. Some of those messages reportedly involved young train fans in the Chatsworth area.

About the time of his last text message, Sanchez sailed through a red warning light, according to Wayne Workman, the NTSB investigator in charge. Workman said tests showed the signal was visible as Sanchez approached it and it was working properly. But four witnesses, including the Metrolink conductor who survived, have said the final light appeared green.

Connex Railroad, which employed Sanchez and has a contract to provide Metrolink train crews, issued a statement saying the engineer’s actions of allowing teenage rail enthusiasts to ride and control trains were "repugnant" and "contrary to the most fundamental rules of rail operation."

"This rogue behavior was uncharacteristic of the Robert Sanchez known to his co-workers, supervisors, friends and neighbors as a dedicated career railroad engineer" with various railroads, the statement said.

-- Robert J. Lopez and Rich Connell

railroad Wrote:
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> This revelation will cause railfans to be scorned
> and persecuted! And most of us have no intention
> of wrecking a train.


I would hope that railfans have no intention of OPERATING a train. I would also hope that there aren't other engineers still out there who are stupid enough to allow it or encourage it.

Their are text messages about it, but I wonder if any of the teens has actually corroborated that this happened.

smitty195 Wrote:

>
> I would hope that railfans have no intention of
> OPERATING a train. I would also hope that there
> aren't other engineers still out there who are
> stupid enough to allow it or encourage it.


I'm sure there are railfans that would love to run a locomotive (me included) but I also hope that they would be wise enough to know that it's not the smart thing to do. I've been in cabs, had cab rides off and on the main, and done a few other things that I would never do in toady's world. No doubt about it, a cab ride in T&P 610, NKP 765, or a Class I diesel is a thrill. Today I wouldn't want to put someones job in jeopardy. Some engineers are really great guys and would love to show their trade to friends but it's just not worth it today.

Yes, I would love to operate a train but, I have no intention of OPERATING a train. If you want to operate a train, try getting involved with your local railway museum or one of the "pay to run a train" operations, or maybe apply for a job on the railroad.

Guess most of us will just have to settle on one of the "Train-Sim" programs.

John

John

To be quite honest, the reports from the hearing are making me "sick to my stomach". I have had my fair share of "cab rides" going back more than 50 years. But, it is becoming increasing clear those days are long, long since over and railroaders who let railfans get anywhere near their locomotives are. at a minimum, going to lose their jobs and when the feds get finish-will most likely be going to jail. Just one man's opinion.

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

You are quite right, the actions of one make thousands look terrible.

livesteamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be quite honest, the reports from the hearing
> are making me "sick to my stomach". I have had my
> fair share of "cab rides" going back more than 50
> years. But, it is becoming increasing clear those
> days are long, long since over and railroaders who
> let railfans get anywhere near their locomotives
> are. at a minimum, going to lose their jobs and
> when the feds get finish-will most likely be going
> to jail. Just one man's opinion.

Hey, it kinda sounds like police work now, doesn't it?????? Welcome to the "bash everyone because of one person" world of thinking everybody.

Oh yea, I've had passengers give me the one fingered salute, and even some older gent come up and tell me what a crappy ride it was.



smitty195 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey, it kinda sounds like police work now, doesn't
> it?????? Welcome to the "bash everyone because of
> one person" world of thinking everybody.

Just another thought in passing--watch the feds (in the aftermath of this most serious accident) make it a violation of federal law for an unauthorized individual to be in a locomotive cab and then set it up to charge both the locomotive crew and the unauthroized individual with the crime.

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

If you think about it for a minute, how could letting a teenager sit at the throttle under the guidance of the engineer, turn out any worse than what the engineer managed to do himself?

From http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/03/state/n073405S04.DTL&tsp=1

"Investigators also found that the conductor of the Union Pacific train received and sent numerous text messages while on duty. The conductor tested positive for marijuana, but he was not driving the train at the time of the crash."

and

"Federal investigators said Sanchez sent and received 43 text messages and made four phone calls while on duty that day, including one that he sent 22 seconds before the collision.

The texts indicated he had allowed the teenager to ride in the cab several days before the crash, and that he was planning to let him run the train between four stations on the evening of the crash."

OliveHeights Wrote:
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> If you think about it for a minute, how could
> letting a teenager sit at the throttle under the
> guidance of the engineer, turn out any worse than
> what the engineer managed to do himself?


Because that person is not in possession of a federal licence

Those who have "major locomotive jones" should remember that several railway museums have "run a locomotive" programs: Orange Empire has "Run One", which is quite popular, the Portola CA museum has an assortment of diesels for visitors to run; these programs are a useful source of donations. Seashore Trolley Museum has a "guest motorman" program; not quite as impressive as a 120-ton locomotive, but still a rare experience. I've run all sorts of rail equipment over the years, having been a volunteer motorman at OERM, and running preserved cars all over the US, on the Isle of Man and in Australia. On a couple of occasions I've run the three-car PE "Blimp" train at Orange Empire (I've been qualified on single cars, and can run the train with a "pilot"). There's nothing quite like looking over your shoulder and seeing 200 feet of interurban train and knowing it's under your control. So it's easy to understand the fascination with powerful machinery, but there's a big difference between computer simulations and real steel. (Trekkers may remember Capt. Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru exercise) We must all remember that safety is of first importance, and if you can't do it safely, don't do it at all.

Say what you will about unauthorized cab access, at least when he's got a teen at the throttle, he's focused on running the train.

* JB *

Let's go through this methodically:

1) We all know cab rides for non-employees are now and forever verboten. This is how many boys decided they would follow their fathers into railroading; it's a sad day indeed.

2) We all know that cab rides in the past were allowed/tolerated by carriers; an approval often conveyed simply by silence.

3) The Connex/Veolia statement doesn't pass the smell test for believability; they are just CYA'ing. Ask the Carrier's managers how often they called on-duty crews on their cells KNOWING THEY WERE RUNNING A TRAIN just to ask them if they could double back out when they tied-up. I'm not saying anyone should get a free pass for breaking rules, but if your bosses are breaking the rules, what is their culpability for what happened??

4) We will NEVER know what was going through Mr. Sanchez's mind at the time of the collision. If it was poor judgement/lack of situational awareness it had NOTHING to do with cab rides.

My point? The FRA conversation should not be centered around "he did this wrong and he did that wrong" and as a result we determine that ALL engineers have no common sense and no ability to make sound judgements.

Instead the dialog should be "why was management breaking their own rules, setting the wrong example for employees" or "why do managers break rules when it is convenient for the Carrier?"

my two cents, FWIW

Seems that unless they can find one that was setting there on that day at the time of the wreck, it is worthless information concerning this specific instant. Oh he may have done it and if so he was wrong but they will most likely talk about this wreck at this moment.
'Objection over ruled, toss that man out, bailiff'

Please be patient until they decide. Okay, everybody can go back to work now. :)

Highspeed Wrote:

>
> My point? The FRA conversation should not be
> centered around "he did this wrong and he did that
> wrong" and as a result we determine that ALL
> engineers have no common sense and no ability to
> make sound judgements.
>

Amen, my Highspeed brother...you hit it right on the $.

Cab rides aren't a thing of the past; there are procedures that can be followed for individuals with a bona fide reason to be in the cab (police officers and Operation Lifesaver officials come to mind) can ride, with management's blessing. It's been a long-standing rule that engineers and conductors can't offer cab rides, however. Nothing's changed here, except possible enforcement.

Thank goodness Sanchez was alone in the cab at the time of the collision. If he'd had a guest with him, we ain't seen nothing yet...

I find it completely unacceptable that they are admitting evidence that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WRECK!

I read somewhere that he has a really bad poo two days before the event which caused hemmoroids. He had went to the doctor who told him to be aware of them but they distracted him because his A%% hurt. I bet that was the cause of the wreck too. It's beyond rediculous that they are letting his private info out there from 3 days before the incident. I think his family should have a lawsuit against all parties involved on just that invasion of privacy. What he did 10-20 minutes before the incident, maybe, but nothing further.

-Joe

While I am not condoning anything I fail to see how a non qualified person at the controls under the direct supervision of a qualified engineer would actually put anyone in danger except in some very exceptional situations. I'm not saying it should be allowed but I don't see the huge danger that the press is trumping up.

The other person would simply be operating the controls as directed and if he/she didn't the engineer would simply reach over do it themselves, adding a few seconds to the response time. Yes, I suppose the unqualified person could accidentally big hole the brakes which on a long freight could derail it or something like that but by and large the controls are not generally manipulated in a split second timing sort of way while a train is underway. (Well, yeah to stop on the platform at the same spot everyday like your passengers expect, but that's not life or death.)