Passenger Trains > Early Amtrak Passenger Train Question

On the early Amtrak trains, how was the last car set up as far as markers or marker lights?

Thanks,

Charles

Charles Wrote:
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> On the early Amtrak trains, how was the last car
> set up as far as markers or marker lights?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles

Charles, your question has no single answer. Early Amtrak trains carried marker lights of one sort or another, as required by each of the host railroads. But since the early cars were all second hand and came from any or all of the participating railroads, the exact marker light arrangements depended not only on the individual railroad's operating rules, but also on how each car was equipped.

The two photos below, taken of Amtrak's Washington-Parkersburg "West Virginian" passenger trains (both at Oakland, Maryland, on October 31, 1971) suggest that at least on the B&O, one marker light was all that was required. And you'll note that on one train, the marker is hung on the left side of the rear coach, while on the other it is hung on the right side. Both of the cars carrying markers were Chesapeake and Ohio 1600-series coaches (one car on each train had been modified to provide food service at one end of the car).

The third photo, taken of the new Amtrak "Adironadack" in August, 1974 ( on the D&H at Whitehall, N.Y.), shows that on the Delaware & Hudson , no marker lights were required, at least not in daylight. The rear end car of the southbound train (at left), is a leased Canadian Pacific dome-lounge.

How it worked on other railroads, I cannot recall, other than that I believe cars fitted with built-in rear end markers (such as observation cars) usually had both markers lit, though I cannot produce a photo at the moment to prove it.

Art House



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/09 13:56 by aehouse.

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I am most interested in the early Amtrak Empire Builder, so that would be running on BN rails. By that time, I do not believe that any observation cars were still being run.

Charles Wrote:
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> I am most interested in the early Amtrak Empire
> Builder, so that would be running on BN rails. By
> that time, I do not believe that any observation
> cars were still being run.

I guess you'd need either a BN fan with a long memory or photos, or access to a BN book of rules for the period in which you have interest.

Art

And BN was probably still using the
1967 Consolidated Code? We can check
that, but I doubt it will say
anything specific.

I recall the Burlington Dome Observations running on the Amtrak North Coast Hiawatha, and there are photos of the former GN "Mountain" Obs operating along with the Port of Seattle or Vancouver. I don't recall if those cars operated on the Amtrak Builder.

I remember late one night Vista Dome Observation "Silver Terrace" bringing up the rear of Amtrak #3 into KC en route to LA for a group. It's tear drop markers and gyrating tail light blazing through the mist of the evening. She looked great.

Amfleet cars constructed 1975-77 had built in marker lights. Also all subsequent new equipment.

All HEP rebuilds had marker lights built in.

The 1959 Consolidated Code requires two
markers; the 1967 and 1980 don't require
two, and say nothing about where the
marker(s) is supposed to go. They do say
if the car has markers built in they
are to be lit day and night.

I had never heard of Parkersburg, WV before. That seems like a strange end point for a train. Why not one of the larger cities in West Virginia?

In the early days it was very common to have a single marker that hung from the top of the gate in the last passage door, plugged in to the DC trainline connector at the top of the door. Of course a very few cars had built-in markers, and markers could be hung on the marker brackets as shown in the previous photos, but I remember the light hung on the gate as the commonest Amtrak marker.

Barry Draper

benthere Wrote:
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> I had never heard of Parkersburg, WV before. That
> seems like a strange end point for a train. Why
> not one of the larger cities in West Virginia?


Parkersburg was in Harley O. Staggers' district.

Mr. Staggers was a huge power in railroading via his control of the House Committee that controlled the old ICC. He liked trains, and liked them to run in his district. His name later graced the bill on deregulation, although he didn't care much for many of its contents.

Charles Wrote:
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> I am most interested in the early Amtrak Empire
> Builder, so that would be running on BN rails. By
> that time, I do not believe that any observation
> cars were still being run.

The only rear-end photo of the Builder I can turn up is in the book "Journey to Amtrak" and there is no evidence of a marker of any kind on the last car.

-John

An interesting question, as it begs a look at the general practices of American railroads from the sixties on. I know that many, if not most, eastern railroads appear to have discontinued using markers of any kind from around 1965. Was this due to a change in FRA rules, or what? All I know is, most eastern trains into the early Amtrak era ran "bare-assed." All trains on BN used rectangular metal non-illuminated marker paddles, red to rear, green to front. This dated from spring 1967, when Great Northern discontinued traditional marker lights and Mars lights (EXCEPT on trains running into Canada, which required lighted markers). The practice continued as long as heritage equipment ran on BN lines. SP required its favored chintzy little lighted plastic dots on the rear of all pass. trains on its lines. Cheers! Kurt.

benthere Wrote:
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> I had never heard of Parkersburg, WV before. That
> seems like a strange end point for a train. Why
> not one of the larger cities in West Virginia?


The train was put on under pressure of West Virginia Congressman Harley Staggers. It was the westernmost point in West Virginia (on the Ohio River) served by the B&O. Previous service over the route had run to Cincinnati --and at one time on to St. Louis.

Thanks to Congressman Staggers, Amtrak at one time or another had passenger trains operating on all three mainline railroads running though the state: the B&O, the C&O, and the N&W.

Only the C&O route's passenger train (The Cardinal) survives today.

Art House



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/09 13:04 by aehouse.

> I know that many, if not most, eastern
> railroads appear to have discontinued using
> markers of any kind from around 1965.

On passenger, you mean? Offhand I'm
guessing the rulebooks continued to
require something red on the rear.

aehouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> benthere Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I had never heard of Parkersburg, WV before.
> That
> > seems like a strange end point for a train.
> Why
> > not one of the larger cities in West Virginia?
>
>
> The train was put on under pressure of West
> Virginia Congressman Harley Staggers. It was the
> westernmost point on the B&O on West Virginia (on
> the Ohio River) served by the B&O. Previous
> service over the route had run to Cincinnati --and
> at one time on to St. Louis.
>
> Thanks to Congressman Staggers, Amtrak at one time
> or another had passenger trains operating on all
> three mainline railroads running though the state:
> the B&O, the C&O, and the N&W.
>
> Only the C&O route's passenger train (The
> Cardinal) survives today.
>
> Art House


Think,at one time,Amtrak operated a train, at the insistance of Congressman Harley Staggers, named the "Hilltopper"? from New Port News VA to Charleston WV. Was refered to,as "Harley's Hornet".A train from "Nowhere to Nowhere"?

>
>
> Think,at one time,Amtrak operated a train, at the
> insistance of Congressman Harley Staggers, named
> the "Hilltopper"? from New Port News VA to
> Charleston WV. Was refered to,as "Harley's
> Hornet".A train from "Nowhere to Nowhere"?


The Hilltopper ran to and from Norfolk and Catlettsburg, KY, near Huntington, WV, where it connected with the Cardinal, (and had through cars via the Cardinal to and from Chicago).

Art House

Oops, I meant to say GN dropped marker lights only; Mars lights remained until BN abolished them in spring 1970 (trains going to Canada kept them). Kurt.

So in 1971, I guess that I can hang a light on the gate, or go with no light at all.

Yup!