Passenger Trains > FEC: Auto-Train moving farther south?

I noticed the successful candidate for a new Florida legislative seat has proposed a much farther south location for an additional terminus on the Auto Train. Amtrak currently has a substantial and recently expanded facility in Sanford, near Orlando. Larry Lee's proposal is to make a 40 acre site in Fort Pierce available to Amtrak for the terminus. FPC is near Vero Beach, Stuart, etc on the east coast.

Even if the additional service is a seasonal 2x weekly or 3x weekly location during the high traffic season, it could be very profitable. Fort Pierce is on the (much faster) FEC line, and cuts out about two hours of driving from Sanford to Fort Pierce, and points farther south like West Palm Beach. Fort Lauderdale, Miami, etc. Having a terminal much farther south could be attractive to people who don't want a seven hour drive at the end of their train trip.

Operationally, it would eat into the turn around cushion at SFA, reducing it from about eight or nine hours to about five. I wonder if this is enough?



http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/nov/06/florida-house-district-84-2012/

Not enough turnaround. And is the north end of the FEC really faster than the Jax-Sanford portion of the ex-ACL?

Awesome, wish it would move further north to cut my drive down to a hour or hour and a half.

Sanford is centrally located for travelers for either coast of Florida. Fort Pierce is not, and I wonder, like a post above, if there is enough turnaround time for the train.

Not enough turn time. ORLANDO is a destination!! Major parks etc. Convenient to both coasts.

a737flyer Wrote:
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> Sanford is centrally located for travelers for
> either coast of Florida. Fort Pierce is not, and
> I wonder, like a post above, if there is enough
> turnaround time for the train.


You can always cut the train into two sections somewhere north of Sanford (maybe Jacksonville), with one ending in Sanford and another serving southern Florida.

P.S. Turn around time could be an issue though....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/12 12:49 by chs7-321.

Where there's a will there's a way. It certainly makes sense to expand the service. I wish there were three options in Florida. One is already present in Sanford, the other would be on the Atlantic Coast in South Florida (Fort Pierce would be a good logical place too), and on the Gulf Coast with somewhere like St. Petersburg. The population base on both coast is huge and while the current facility is centrally located it means a drive. The drive is exactly what should be decreased. There are options such as pick up/ set out enroute at Sanford and Jacksonville or running several carriers on the back of an existing train to the rendevous with the main train.

One of the main reasons for Auto Train's success is it's relative efficiency compared to other long distance operations. Just two terminals and two sets of equipment, which are on the road 16 hours or so out of every 24. Start messing with this model and costs increase significantly - likely far faster than revenue. As others have pointed out, the current terminals are ideally located to maximize the cachement area at each end - key to filling those 600+ seats and berths. Additional terminals, while perhaps more convenient for some customers, are more likely to get ridership from cannibalization of existing business than from bringing in new customers.

Dave

One word why it will not move:

ORLANDO

While this Auto Train service is going just fine, Amtrak needs OTHER auto-train services.

Start with Chicago-LAX - #3-4. Use the old Turbo facility on the s.w. side of Chicago to load/unload. And part of 8th St. in LAX to load/unload.

An extra slpr & coach on 3/4 should do it. Plus four auto carriers.

This isn't rocket science and it is not that expensive.

He ran for, and was elected to, the Florida House. If he wants anything from Amtrak he needs to have Florida pony up some money first. Put bluntly, who cares what someone in the Florida House of Representatives wants?

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

MEKoch Wrote:
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> Start with Chicago-LAX - #3-4. Use the old Turbo
> facility on the s.w. side of Chicago to
> load/unload. And part of 8th St. in LAX to
> load/unload.

Not particularly desirable areas on either end. The seasonal traffic and vacationers are headed to New Mexico and Arizona anyway, and a suburban Chicago location around Downers Grove or Joliet would be far more accesible.

Several years AMTRAK entertain the idea of turning the COAST STARLIGHT into an AUTO TRAIN(SEATTLE-OAKLAND-L.A.) But some bean counter killed the plan.

Patch said it all.
Auto Train will not move from Sanford and no additional terminals will be added.
Adding more cars and terminals does not automatically translate to more revenue. AT works now because it's a simple operation. Two terminals, two trainsets.

Sanford is about the best location for Florida customers as it's near Disney (Yes, I know. We're supposed to use the term "Orlando attractions" but it's Disney we're talking about) plus the drive via I-4 and cocaine alley (I-95) is fairly fast. The drive from Tampa & St. Pete is not far.

Plus I don't buy that the FEC is "much faster" than the CSX Sanford sub. A little, maybe. Not much.

Danny Harmon
Tampa

chs7-321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a737flyer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sanford is centrally located for travelers for
> > either coast of Florida. Fort Pierce is not,
> and
> > I wonder, like a post above, if there is enough
> > turnaround time for the train.
>
>
> You can always cut the train into two sections
> somewhere north of Sanford (maybe Jacksonville),
> with one ending in Sanford and another serving
> southern Florida.
>
> P.S. Turn around time could be an issue
> though....


Not with a train that big!

There are not many routes where autotrain would be feasible. It works to Florida because there are lots of snow birds with homes in both places. Chicago to Los Angeles will not work because there is little reason for people to carry their cars with them. It is cheaper to rent a car instead.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

webmaster Wrote:
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> There are not many routes where autotrain would be
> feasible. It works to Florida because there are
> lots of snow birds with homes in both places.
> Chicago to Los Angeles will not work because there
> is little reason for people to carry their cars
> with them. It is cheaper to rent a car instead.

Most fuel inefficient train among all of the LDT's. You are not saving any energy by leaving the vehicles at home because you are burning fuel to move them and the heavy railroad cars that they ride in (plus of course the railroad cars you ride in).

Narr8rdanny Wrote:
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> Patch said it all.
> Auto Train will not move from Sanford and no
> additional terminals will be added.
> Adding more cars and terminals does not
> automatically translate to more revenue. AT works
> now because it's a simple operation. Two
> terminals, two trainsets.
>
> Sanford is about the best location for Florida
> customers as it's near Disney (Yes, I know. We're
> supposed to use the term "Orlando attractions" but
> it's Disney we're talking about) plus the drive
> via I-4 and cocaine alley (I-95) is fairly fast.
> The drive from Tampa & St. Pete is not far.
>
> Plus I don't buy that the FEC is "much faster"
> than the CSX Sanford sub. A little, maybe. Not
> much.
>
> Danny Harmon
> Tampa


If you argue that Auto Train should have only one Florida, terminal, Sanford makes a lot of sense.

If you make the argument that a supplemental terminal somewhere farther south would be better, that opens up additional markets.

For example, my parents have been A-T passengers for 25 years. They move north to south every fall, and come back north in the spring. They love the A-T and have a two hour ride on the south end, and about four hours on the north end. My sister, however, makes a similar move, but she lives farther south, near Fort Lauderdale.

It's much cheaper and a day faster to have the truck pick up her cars and bring them to Florida as she takes a JetBlue flight with her husband. Last year the trip was about $500 cheaper and a full day faster by air. I suspect a lot of customers from FLL, MIA, etc prefer to fly and ship, than take the train and drive five or six hours at the end.

D'ya really think the CSX route down into the St. Lucie County / Fort Pierce western area is faster than the FEC coming out of Jacksonville? I haven't heard that before.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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>
> It's much cheaper and a day faster to have the
> truck pick up her cars and bring them to Florida
> as she takes a JetBlue flight with her husband.
> Last year the trip was about $500 cheaper and a
> full day faster by air.

How much does it cost to ship a car to Florida by transport company? There must be a lot of options considering the large number of people that have two homes.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

I don't believe I said that. Firstly, CSX doesn't go into Fort Pierce.
I was talking about the Sanford sun, Jax to Sanford. I don't believe the FEC from Fort Pierce is very much faster than the Sanford Sub from Sanford to Jax.

DH
Tampa

Lackawanna484 Wrote:

> D'ya really think the CSX route down into the St.
> Lucie County / Fort Pierce western area is faster
> than the FEC coming out of Jacksonville? I
> haven't heard that before.