Passenger Trains > Caution Tape Between Cars on #5 (2) at CUS

The crew aboard #5 blocked access between cars with yellow security tape in between cars, to prevent passengers from going to the lounge until all tickets were collected. Announcements admonished passengers to remain in their seats until a complete head count was completed so that crews could know who was onboard in the event of an accident. A particularly stern warning was repeated to sleeping cars passengers who were told to sit in their rooms with the curtains open until tickets were collected.

The capacity for Amtrak crews to go over the top never ceases to amaze me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/14 21:44 by stuporchief.

I experienced the same thing on the Coast Starlight leaving LA in April 2013. They repeatedly warned passengers to stay put (I was in a roomette) or they might re-sell the accommodations or seat and then you would be screwed.

The guy came by and checked my ticket pretty quickly, but I still wasn't pleased with the manner of the admonition to passengers.

The way they were barking orders, I felt more like a prisoner than a paying customer at the start of a journey.

Posted from iPhone

Same thing leaving LAUPT on the chief yesterday.

Posted from iPhone

Amtrak's own Facebook page has had some pretty damning stories about abusive
treatment by Amtrak employees recently. In one, a mother and son struck up a friendship
while waiting for a delayed Lake Shore Limited, with a young man booked on the
same train. When it came time to board, the crew did not permit them to sit
together even though they came forth when "groups of three" were called for.
The crew separated them into a group of two and a single passenger. Approaching
their destination, they noticed the attendant notified everyone except them
to be ready to detrain (it was at night...no PA) but skipped them. Asked why,
the attendant told them he skipped them intentionally because of the prior
"trouble" during boarding.

In another incident, a (white) passenger waiting in line didn't step up to the ticket
window quickly enough for the (black) ticket agent, who yelled at her and called
her "Bambi" which is apparently a black-on-white racial slur in the East.

On Saturday, all the employees boarding a Kansas City-St. Louis train at Jefferson City
failed to notice that a passenger was holding a Jefferson City-Kansas City E-ticket.
They let him on and the passenger was taken all the way to St. Louis



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/14 11:25 by GenePoon.

While all of this is horrible, it isn't always the case. Last year I boarded No. 30 in Toledo. The really nice and efficient conductor came through the waiting room of the station and scanned everyone's ticket before the train arrived. Once on board, passengers were free to move about as they wished. So why couldn't this be done at the originating stations as well? When boarding The Canadian, all tickets are lifted by the Service Manager at the major stations in route. Then one can immediately sit in a dome, lounge, or in their rooms. No yellow police tape necessary. Overall on Amtrak, it does seem like passengers are treated more like prisoners than guests. (see my post on abrasive dining car LSA on No. 21 last week). A simple announcement like "please remain in your seats or rooms until all tickets are collected...we'll let you know when that's completed....THANKS." I doubt the on board staff is coming up with these schemes on their own. It must come from the top. Remember Amtrak is Government. Anyone watching the news lately knows about the scandals at the VA, IRS etc. Certain people there have been treating the people they are suppose to serve very poorly...even using foul language to describe members of a certain political group. So why is it a surprise that some (but certainly not all) Amtrak management should be any different? AS for the race element, had the situation been reversed and a white crew member talked to a black passenger in that manner, it probably would have made the news followed by a lawsuit, for being "disrespected."

I rode the Capitol Limited and Empire Builder, both ways, between Washington DC and Whitefish, Montana in May, and never had a single incident of poor crew behavior on the entire trip. In fact it was quite the opposite--they were all attentive and friendly--sleeping car attendants, operating crew, and dining and lounge attendants as well.

The folks in the Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago were equally professional.

Guess it's the luck of the draw.

Art House

andersonb109 Wrote:
----------------" I doubt the on board staff
> is coming up with these schemes on their own. It
> must come from the top. Remember Amtrak is
> Government.

So are police, firemen, and Customs and BP, so I presume you have the same low opinion of them.

The crews pull off this behavior for one simple reason: THEN CAN, and since it is not an issue concerning NEC infrastructure nor Acela frou-frou, of no interest at all to management. Below was my experience with a conductor on #30 out of Chicago last September 4, who should have been pulled out of service on the spot. I of course got no answer from Amtrak customer service. Despite management's highly probably lurkings on T.O.com, this stuff goes on as it is sanctioned by management. If patronage drops as a result, they would be more than happy to cut a coach from the consist book. Unfortunately , there is no organized consumer group publicizing this behavior (NARP is NOT it).


First, this conductor’s behavior was enabled and reinforced by the abuse of Amtrak’s already ridiculous policy of mandatory train-side seat assignments. While it allegedly keeps “families together”, so does allotting some number of seat pairs to groups, and everything falls into place just fine upon initial boarding when and where this latter technique is used, and the crew knows their manifest. People do not like being ordered about like in Kindergarten.

The train crew (the coach attendants had NO say in the matter) clearly did not know their lower level manifest of 24 seats (half a bus load), was not to get a 100% load factor, they did not care, and sat people where they wanted without regard to wheelchairs and those with special needs.

I was told to proceed to the 31 car for lower level seating to Washington, (30 car was 31xxx), then told to go back to the 32 car because “we are pretty much full”, then ORDERED to “sit next to that gentleman”, which was a backward facing seat pair toward the vestibule intended for wheelchair access. The person in that window seat said he was waiting for a wheelchair companion who he had met on a connecting Hiawatha train, so I moved to another vacant seat row, which the conductor had needlessly flipped up the leg rests so that no one would sit there.

Then the wheelchair lady came in. Her e-ticket explicitly said:”LOWER LEVEL WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE”. She also already had been refused entry into the 31 car, so the large passenger/baggage tractor had to do a 180 degree turn in the crowded platform. She needed to stretch her leg out without a bulkhead wall or another seat in front of her as an electrical impulse causes her leg to jerk every 65 seconds, being a cancer patient and paralyzed from the knees down.

The conductor told her nonetheless to sit in one of those tight seats and YELLED AT ME IN FRONT OF EVERYONE “I TOLD YOU TO SIT NEXT TO THAT MAN”. When this wheelchair passenger explained she had to be in that seat next to the man AND why, the conductor said “YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT MY PROBEM”. I then said, “I am moving back to where I was near the wall, and the wheelchair lady will sit here “. The conductor said OK, and disappeared for good after e-ticket scanning. She was also overheard talking in the vestibule with words to the affect “These handicapped passengers think the world owes them a living”.

Again, this conductor’s arrogance and ignorance caused:
1) what should have been a calm loading taking 40 minutes of a not large consist of 2 sleepers and 3 coaches into a Chinese fire-drill
2) sat passengers according to her convenience without regard to passengers needs
3) Amtrak’s corporate image to not be well served impersonating the Headmaster on “Matilda”.

I informed this handicap passenger, who also happens to be an accomplished folk music singer, (she gave me her CD as a thanks for helping her with information about the train and its operation) as well as two other angry passengers in the lower level to notify customer service when they got to Washington.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The crews pull off this behavior for one simple
> reason: THEN CAN, and since it is not an issue
> concerning NEC infrastructure nor Acela frou-frou,
> of no interest at all to management. Below was my
> experience with a conductor on #30 out of Chicago
> last September 4, who should have been pulled out
> of service on the spot. I of course got no answer
> from Amtrak customer service. Despite management's
> highly probably lurkings on T.O.com, this stuff
> goes on as it is sanctioned by management. If
> patronage drops as a result, they would be more
> than happy to cut a coach from the consist book.
> Unfortunately , there is no organized consumer
> group publicizing this behavior (NARP is NOT it).
>
>
>
> First, this conductor’s behavior was enabled and
> reinforced by the abuse of Amtrak’s already
> ridiculous policy of mandatory train-side seat
> assignments. While it allegedly keeps “families
> together”, so does allotting some number of seat
> pairs to groups, and everything falls into place
> just fine upon initial boarding when and where
> this latter technique is used, and the crew knows
> their manifest. People do not like being ordered
> about like in Kindergarten.
>
> The train crew (the coach attendants had NO say in
> the matter) clearly did not know their lower level
> manifest of 24 seats (half a bus load), was not to
> get a 100% load factor, they did not care, and sat
> people where they wanted without regard to
> wheelchairs and those with special needs.
>
> I was told to proceed to the 31 car for lower
> level seating to Washington, (30 car was 31xxx),
> then told to go back to the 32 car because “we
> are pretty much full”, then ORDERED to “sit
> next to that gentleman”, which was a backward
> facing seat pair toward the vestibule intended for
> wheelchair access. The person in that window seat
> said he was waiting for a wheelchair companion who
> he had met on a connecting Hiawatha train, so I
> moved to another vacant seat row, which the
> conductor had needlessly flipped up the leg rests
> so that no one would sit there.
>
> Then the wheelchair lady came in. Her e-ticket
> explicitly said:”LOWER LEVEL WHEELCHAIR
> ACCESSIBLE”. She also already had been refused
> entry into the 31 car, so the large
> passenger/baggage tractor had to do a 180 degree
> turn in the crowded platform. She needed to
> stretch her leg out without a bulkhead wall or
> another seat in front of her as an electrical
> impulse causes her leg to jerk every 65 seconds,
> being a cancer patient and paralyzed from the
> knees down.
>
> The conductor told her nonetheless to sit in one
> of those tight seats and YELLED AT ME IN FRONT OF
> EVERYONE “I TOLD YOU TO SIT NEXT TO THAT MAN”.
> When this wheelchair passenger explained she had
> to be in that seat next to the man AND why, the
> conductor said “YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT MY
> PROBEM”. I then said, “I am moving back to
> where I was near the wall, and the wheelchair lady
> will sit here “. The conductor said OK, and
> disappeared for good after e-ticket scanning. She
> was also overheard talking in the vestibule with
> words to the affect “These handicapped
> passengers think the world owes them a living”.
>
> Again, this conductor’s arrogance and ignorance
> caused:
> 1) what should have been a calm loading taking 40
> minutes of a not large consist of 2 sleepers and 3
> coaches into a Chinese fire-drill
> 2) sat passengers according to her convenience
> without regard to passengers needs
> 3) Amtrak’s corporate image to not be well
> served impersonating the Headmaster on
> “Matilda”.
>
> I informed this handicap passenger, who also
> happens to be an accomplished folk music singer,
> (she gave me her CD as a thanks for helping her
> with information about the train and its
> operation) as well as two other angry passengers
> in the lower level to notify customer service when
> they got to Washington.

Sad, sad, sad. And, probably a violation of several aspects of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Could be some money in a civil suit. Amtrak spends millions to make travel more accessible for people with disabilities, then makes travel on board more difficult. My head is spinning.

From the wide range of complaints from all over the country, it seems like some people aren't living up to the standards that 95%-99% of Amtrak employees deliver every day. But it's equally obvious that management doesn't have any interest or desire to pull poorly performing folks for re-training. How many times have specific crews been mentioned, some even by name? For YEARS, and nothing happens. Life goes on, people get paid.

What ever happened to the regional general managers, the line managers, the deputy line managers, the assistants to the deputy line managers etc who were supposed to help improve operations on board?

In my original post, I forgot to mention the ironic twist. After the strident warnings that\ passengers must remain in their accommodations -- so the crew wouldn't miss any of when when they checked tickets -- they did fail to scan my ticket (for a group of four). The four of us were all sitting together in a coach, as instructed, and the employee collecting tickets simply passed us over.

When we left the train at Galesburg I found him on the platform and noted that he had not scanned our tickets. As he scanned them he asked me, "Where did you come from?" I really didn't know what to say.

< Where did you come from?" I really didn't know what to say. >

And I would have said without any hesitation "we were right in front of your nose, stupid".

I take it they don't use hat checks above the seats anymore with destination?

The coach attendant came through and placed hat checks overhead before the train crew "checked" tickets.

There is clear confusion, lack of coordination, and inconsistency from train to train as to what a coach attendant does, and what a conductor does.I think the coach attendant should be abolished (now that there are no pillows to hand out).

I recently rode train 4 from Victorville to Kansas City in the sleepers. I quietly observed the attitudes and actions of the on train employees, and was amazed at the manner of intercom announcements. They were repetitive, demeaning, almost insulting, and certainly help instill an attitude of fear and resentment among the passengers. The dining car announcements "you cannot eat in the dining car unless you make a reservation now!"; The train is completely overloaded and the diner will not be able to seat everyone ( memo: last coach was almost empty, sleepers not completely full, only two waiters working total of 8 tables), on and on. Do these on train employees think all the passengers are blind and stupid? The passengers could see that the diner was half empty, and that the train was not anywhere near at capacity.
And then, the use of the intercom to summon other crew members.....Alice, come to the IC.....Frank, where are you....I'm in the 31 car....and on and on.
Amtrak leadership needs to give thought to what kind of an atmosphere is created abouard theit trains.

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

Don't hold your breath for Amtrak management to do anything - they don't care and are too incompetent if they did.
I am coming to the conclusion that Amtrak operations need to be outsourced.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't hold your breath for Amtrak management to do
> anything - they don't care and are too incompetent
> if they did.
> I am coming to the conclusion that Amtrak
> operations need to be outsourced.


Amtrak management's inability to rein in the few poor performers and monitor what's actually happening on the trains is breath taking, truly amazing. It's a shame for the good people who try to do a quality job in the face of many obstacles.

Not a lot different than the Post Office, another government enterprise. My neighborhood is now down to 3 or 4 deliveries a week. Instead of the six we're supposed to get. When I asked the letter carrier, he said that they're not allowed to put in for overtime, so when the clock is about to run out, the route is over for the day. The supervisor told me the crews stretch out the deliveries so they can milk the overtime. No way they could start the route in the middle on odd days, etc, though. Not set up that way.

I spoke with the "officer in charge" and he told me that it's a difficult situation and they're aware of the problem. Didn't expect to be able to restructure the routes, or start in the middle though. So, it's three or four times a week for now. I'll probably have to call our Congressman next.

The way some Amtrak employees use the intercom makes me wonder if they receive any training at all.

I was a sleeper passenger on #28 out of Portland in July and the intercom business started before we left the station with a longwinded announcement that there would be a real announcement coming after departure.

After departure we were treated to a rambling account of dinner offerings — fetch it yourself from the lounge car after 6 p.m. — including repeating the three entree choices two or three times. Then, we learned about the new Amtrak water and coffee policy, and how in the morning our attendant would cut off coffee promptly at 11, but he was breaking the rules that afternoon and offering coffee upon departure. Then we heard what could best be described as a diatribe about tipping the car attendant. The jist of it was that passengers ask about tipping, Amtrak employees aren't supposed to make suggestions, and it's totally voluntary, but use your judgement, like you would in a restaurant.

The whole tipping thing was rambling, repetitive and unnecessary. Ever been to a restaurant where the first thing the waiter does is spend 5 minutes talking about tipping?

I don't mind some initial announcements about food, dinner time, and when coffee will be served in the morning, but the extra commentary about rules was unprofessional and off-putting.

Somewhere along the journey, there was another announcement that the lounge car attendant had taken it upon himself to change dinner time to 5, and we could fetch out meals beginning then. I felt sorry for the people who apparently didn't hear that announcement and when they showed up at 6 they discovered the three entree choices had shrunk to one. "Didn't you hear the announcement," one of the Amtrak workers asked them.

It's all just a very unprofessional way to run things.

No training, no supervision, no accountability.

On another note, when I did descend into the lower level of the lounge to fetch my boxed dinner (This was out of Portland where there is no real diner until after Spokane) I found half of the lower level closed off. And the section that wasn't roped off was filled with Amtrak car attendants spread out like they were fellow travelers. My car attendant was eating a Subway sandwich. Another table was empty but had a big sign that said RESERVED for train crew.

For a boxed dinner, the food was decent. I had the shrimp louis salad. The dinner roll was stale as could be, but otherwise it was OK. I could have a free juice with my dinner, but the lounge car attendant said I would have to pay if I wanted a soda. That didn't make a lot of sense. I was just happy to learn that they actually had ice on the train.

I have heard stories c1970 of pre-Amtrak era trains where the crews were so disengaged that they would just toss dirty dining car china from the train instead of washing it. I guess it's a good thing Amtrak doesn't use real china these days. I could easily see the crew on the Empire Builder I rode tossing china into the Columbia River.

On balance, I have had positive Amtrak stories, too. Like when I boarded #14 in Oxnard one trip in 2013 and when I was getting on, the sleeping car attendant told me he had already made a lunch reservation for me at the XX-o'clock seating. That was nice.

On-board crews would certainly benefit with more training, supervision and accountability.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/14 16:37 by walstib.

Shhh...

Don't say anything bad about Amtrak on-board service performance. According to Fred Frailey we're just a bunch of TrainOrders whiners.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/14 16:40 by Cumbresfan.

Fred Frailey should be locked in a roomette and forced to listen to the endless intercom announcements.

Then we'll see who is whining!

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but the other intercom abuse thing that really gets me is the endless dialog from the lounge car attendant whining about having to take inventory, when hgis dinner is going to be, blah, blah, and so forth.

Just tell us the hours and be done with it. Nobody cares about the details of your dinner and taking inventory is part of the job — just suck it up and do it without complaining.