Passenger Trains > Empire Builders departures CANCELLED this Tuesday

7(29) and 8(29) are cancelled



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/19 23:23 by GenePoon.

disappointing, anderson please leave

Did BN ask for this? Seems the high line should be prepared for snow.

Posted from Android

Wait. I thought global warming would put an end to this nonsense/  We truly have become a country of snowflakes. So is Amtrak providing airline tickets to get the customers they abandoned to their destinations (or at least the few destinations actually served by air on the EB route?)  What a complete joke. VIA's Canadian would need to cancel almost every departure in January due to the cold (ever been to Winnipeg in January)?  I've gotten off in Winnipeg in -40c and other than a few frozen switches (because they are used only a few times per week) there were no issues. The train stayed warm and didn't run any later than "normal." 

This storm is dangerous with sub zero temperatures with life threatening consequences.state of Indiana told people stay off the road and if caught you will be arrested

Posted from iPhone

KansasCityChief Wrote:
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> This storm is dangerous with sub zero temperatures
> with life threatening consequences.state of
> Indiana told people stay off the road and if
> caught you will be arrested
>


Do you have a source with a link for that? There is a travel advisory for NW Indiana (happens all the time during winter) but I’ve seen nothing about a total ban.

Ontario Northland out in the cold.  Doing it every day.  No drama.  http://ontarionorthland.ca/en/service-map

I was waiting for this.  I don't know why they didn't announce this at the same time they cancelled some
of the Midwest Corridor trains.

This cancellation actually makes sense based on experience. Back in the 90's we lost an entire Superliner
consist due to freeze damage somewhere in N.D. or Montana. I no longer remember the details. It was so cold
the diesel fuel gelled and the units shut down.  It didn't take long in below zero weather for the water in the passenger cars
to freeze and bust pipes. Luckily the train was close to civilization.

Yes, the cars have an automatic dump system that is supposed to drain the water at a certain temperature but some water always
hides and freezes.

I may have been responsible for the first Amtrak train cancellation due to forecasted cold weather.  I was 
attending a management development meeting mandated by Warrington. I had lunch at the same table as the superintendent's
clerk.  I think she actually ran the division because the Super was a dolt. Anyway the clerk was talking about the train set that was
freeze damaged.  Another severe cold snap was due up north in a couple days.  I wondered out loud why Amtrak didn't just cancel
the train in life threatening cold.  The airlines had already cancelled flights.  The next day No. 7 out of Chicago was cancelled.
 
A load of passengers should not be put at risk in the arctic conditions of the Northern Tier where towns are few and far between.
Especially when the power is supplied by aging, ill maintained locomotives.

Wasn't the quality of Amtrak power one reason why BNSF ordered Amtrak to use three locomotives in winter?

Posted from Android

It is -14 air temperature here in SE Minnesota today.  Incidentally #8 is expected to depart MSP
on time this morning.  Last night's #7 is now 43 minutes late at Minot.  For safety reasons, it is
probably not a bad idea to cancel, the wilds of the Great White North are brutal.
Stay warm and stay safe,
SR2

SR2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is -14 air temperature here in SE Minnesota
> today.  Incidentally #8 is expected to depart
> MSP
> on time this morning.  Last night's #7 is now 43
> minutes late at Minot.  For safety reasons, it
> is
> probably not a bad idea to cancel, the wilds of
> the Great White North are brutal.
> Stay warm and stay safe,

For safety reasons, we could cancel all operations permanently and then no riders ever again would have to risk stalls, derailments, breakdowns or any other malfunction.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SR2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is -14 air temperature here in SE Minnesota
> > today.  Incidentally #8 is expected to depart
> > MSP
> > on time this morning.  Last night's #7 is now
> 43
> > minutes late at Minot.  For safety reasons, it
> > is
> > probably not a bad idea to cancel, the wilds of
> > the Great White North are brutal.
> > Stay warm and stay safe,
>
> For safety reasons, we could cancel all operations
> permanently and then no riders ever again would
> have to risk stalls, derailments, breakdowns or
> any other malfunction.

I think that’s the end game plan! You are totally correct. Anything can go wrong on every trip. No trips no problems! Funny that airplanes can reliably operate in 30 below temps on every flight but Amtrak equipment goes to hell every time it gets below 15 degrees or so. Given the poor reliability of it though and the extreme cold of this event I have to begrudgingly agree that cancelling these trains is the wiser course of action.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/19 06:02 by alan2955.

abyler Wrote:

>
> For safety reasons, we could cancel all operations
> permanently and then no riders ever again would
> have to risk stalls, derailments, breakdowns or
> any other malfunction.

So that I could know what I was talking about I took a round trip from Chicago to Minot during one brutal cold snap.
Rode the head end both ways MSP - Minot.  A train of ill-maintained, aged equipment in -20 degree weather in the
wilds of the great north is an accident waiting to happen. This is different than the wimp cancellations because of a
forecasted snow storm or hurricane that might cross a small portion of a train's route.

After you have witnessed the engine crew attempting to clear the ice from the INSIDE of an F40 windshield using their
credit cards as scrapers. or heard the strange musical "bing" sound of stick rail doing something strange under the engine at 70 mph
you will get an appreciation of the weather.

I am certain the GN, NP, Milw, and Soo Line ran their trains 24/7 through stuff like this.  At that time there were support teams
all over the place.  Amtrak is Amtrak and it is by itself out there.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Wasn't the quality of Amtrak power one reason why
> BNSF ordered Amtrak to use three locomotives in
> winter?

Yes, and they had already done that.   Train was already operating with three units.

Englewood Wrote:

> I am certain the GN, NP, Milw, and Soo Line ran
> their trains 24/7 through stuff like this.  At
> that time there were support teams
> all over the place.  Amtrak is Amtrak and it is
> by itself out there.

That's one of the best explanations I have read on this site in a long time! Thanks for your input!!

abyler Wrote:
> For safety reasons, we could cancel all operations
> permanently and then no riders ever again would
> have to risk stalls, derailments, breakdowns or
> any other malfunction.

I think you are onto something here. 

(Don't say that too loud)

This should probably go in a different thread, but how did the railroads maintain and operate water towers in such conditions back in the day?

I've always wondered about that and never found any good information regarding it.

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> disappointing, anderson please leave

For what it's worth, as of last Thursday, the tarps had blown off the 'Fire Anderson' board in North Philadelphia.  The 'Save Amtrak' tarp fell off a couple months ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/19 07:31 by BRAtkinson.

BRAtkinson Wrote:

> For what it's worth, as of last Thursday, the
> tarps had blown off the 'Fire Anderson' board in
> North Philadelphia.  The 'Save Amtrak' tarp fell
> off a couple months ago.

God moves in mysterious ways.

restricted_speed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This should probably go in a different thread, but
> how did the railroads maintain and operate water
> towers in such conditions back in the day?
>
> I've always wondered about that and never found
> any good information regarding it.

The Canadian Pacific Historical Association's magazine "CP Tracks"  (Issue 14-1 Sept 2018) has an excellent article on water tanks including winter operation.

Gerry Gaugl
Ottawa ON