Passenger Trains > A billion dollars for Amtrak

The nearly 600-page proposal would set aside in grants $10 billion for grants to airports, $20 billion for transit systems and about $1 billion for Amtrak. Amtrak and transit systems have warned of massive losses as ridership has dramatically fallen – in some places by 90% – as tens of millions of Americans are ordered to shelter in place and others voluntarily work from home to help slow the spread of the highly contagious disease.

Amtrak has slashed service, while airports say they will lose at least $13.9 billion in 2020 and warn they could default on bond obligations.

The bill provides up to $50 billion in loans or loan guarantees to passenger airlines and $8 billion to cargo carriers.

It also provides $17 billion for businesses “critical to maintaining national security.” Another up to $425 billion is set aside for loans to other businesses hard hit by the pandemic. Airlines “to the extend practicable” would have to maintain existing employment levels while it had unpaid loans.

A spokeswoman for Airlines for America, a trade group representing major U.S. passenger and cargo carriers, said on Sunday that “direct financial assistance is needed immediately – other forms of liquidity are rapidly evaporating.”

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Airlines on Saturday made a last-ditch effort to try to get a cash infusion. They had urged that $29 billion of $58 billion sought be in the form of cash grants.

Congressional Democrats said on Sunday there was still no deal and some airline unions sought to convince lawmakers to reverse course.

Airlines had offered not to make any job cuts through Aug. 31 if they won the cash and to accept restrictions on executive pay and forgo paying dividends or stock buybacks.

The global coronavirus outbreak has forced airlines to cancel tens of thousands of flights and resulted in massive revenue losses.

United Airlines, Delta Air Lines, American Airlines Group, FedEx Corp, Southwest Airlines Co, UPS and others warned on Saturday that “time is running out.”

Unions representing pilots said Sunday they were urging members to write to Congress to advocate for grants, while the Association of Flight Attendants said they were asking members to write, call or Tweet asking specifically for direct relief in the form of grants for payroll.

The bill would allow the U.S. Transportation Department to require carriers to maintain scheduled air service and impose limits on executive compensation for companies receiving government loans or two years. The loans would be for a maximum of five years. Airlines would be barred from stock buybacks or paying dividends and to the “extent practicable” would have to keep existing employment levels.

The Treasury Department could receive warrants, stock, options or other equity instruments as part of government loans but could not exercise voting power on any shares it acquired. Democratic aides criticizes the ban on stock buybacks in the bill, noting it could be waived by Treasury.

The bill also waives some aviation excise taxes, which would boost airlines. Boeing Co had sought at least $60 billion in loan guarantees for the aviation manufacturing sector, but it appears the industry could simply seek loans from the $425 billion fund.

Senator Ted Cruz said on Saturday some were “pushing for a special carve-out just for Boeing & GE.” General Electric said on Sunday it had “not sought any provision that would benefit our company exclusively.”

Posted from iPhone

The feds received and made a ton of profit from warrants issued for TARP grants. Most grants were paid back.

If the federal government and workers are contributing to saving firms, they should get stock and warrants.

Posted from Android

amtrakbill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The Treasury Department could receive warrants,
> stock, options or other equity instruments as part
> of government loans but could not exercise voting
> power on any shares it acquired. Democratic aides
> criticizes the ban on stock buybacks in the bill,
> noting it could be waived by Treasury.
>

Equity = ownership.

Interesting to watch neoconservatives (FOX, Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, etc) championing government ownership of the means of production when "their guy" is in power.  It's the good kind of communism (small "c")?

Also, Trump Hotels may seek a bailout. Watch for it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/20 14:21 by Duna.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The feds received and made a ton of profit from
> warrants issued for TARP grants. Most grants were
> paid back.
>
> If the federal government and workers are
> contributing to saving firms, they should get
> stock and warrants.
>
> Posted from Android



Boeing did over $100 Billion in stock buybacks since 2013. Those helped boost the stock price to stupid levels while they were designing crap like the 737 MAX.

It works in reverse, too. Sell stock before seeking taxpayer (aka government) handouts.

How many people at Boeing make over $500,000 per year?

Some business should fail. Lessons learned.

The US economic disaster will be worse (including more deaths) than effects directly from the disease.  S&P 500 and Nasdaq 100 futures opened at 6p Eastern. By 12:05 they were limit down 5% and trading stopped, again.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/20 17:21 by Duna.

Tell that to the victims and their survivors...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

MojaveBill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell that to the victims and their survivors...


Tell them what? Specifically.

Did Boeing get TARP funding in 2008/2009?

The banks, insurers, and auto firms did.

Posted from Android

Wait, they're getting a Billion?  Just think of the new safety program they can buy with some of that like they did with the safe to safer program.  

Plus all the new "strategic initiatives" they can implement!  Jackets, hats for all participants!

Molino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wait, they're getting a Billion?  Just think of
> the new safety program they can buy with some of
> that like they did with the safe to safer
> program.  
>
> Plus all the new "strategic initiatives" they can
> implement!  Jackets, hats for all participants!


Amtrak should ask for more than 1 Billion Dollars, Amtrak should ask for least 10 to 15 Billion Dollars. Then Amtrak New Brand order of Superliners Cars and other New Cars.

railcity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Molino Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wait, they're getting a Billion?  Just think
> of
> > the new safety program they can buy with some
> of
> > that like they did with the safe to safer
> > program.  
> >
> > Plus all the new "strategic initiatives" they
> can
> > implement!  Jackets, hats for all
> participants!
>
>
> Amtrak should ask for more than 1 Billion Dollars,
> Amtrak should ask for least 10 to 15 Billion
> Dollars. Then Amtrak New Brand order of
> Superliners Cars and other New Cars.

Sigh.  No, they should not.   

railcity Wrote:

>
> Amtrak should ask for more than 1 Billion Dollars,
> Amtrak should ask for least 10 to 15 Billion
> Dollars. Then Amtrak New Brand order of
> Superliners Cars and other New Cars.



Why stop at $15 billion? The gov't/Fed can, and will, print more money.

Neel Kashkari, President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis ("The Fed"):
"There's no end to our ability to [flood the system with money]." He later added: "We're far from out of ammunition...your ATM is safe, your banks are safe. There's an infinite amount of cash at the Federal Reserve."

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/kashkari-says-fed-has-infinite-amount-cash-we-create-it-electronically

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/20 09:04 by Duna.

With this bail out we should make sure that the CEO's don't give themselves big bonuses...etc, etc....

"Why stop at $15 billion? The gov't/Fed can, and will, print more money"

This.
Also, this same (lunatic) philosophy could be applied to the ever expanding, albeit not fast enough for some, minimum wage.  Let's just print as much that is needed to support that minimum wage wish-list.

(Excuse me??  How much again for that double cheeseburger???)

The banks (only) got TARP.

There was a separate bailout for AIG.

There yet another bailout for GM and Chrysler and the government received quasi-equity in GM and Chrysler.

Boeing did not receive anything special in 2008-09. They do not deserve to receive anything today. Their issue is they spent $42 billion for stock buybacks; cash that is desperately needed now. They also put bean counters, instead of engineers, in charge. 

We have no choice but to save Boeing but any bailout should include the following:

• Company goes into Chapter 11. 
• Breakup airplanes and defense. Let companies bid for the latter to help pay for the bailout.
• Airplanes' HQ goes back to Seattle.
• 10-year moratorium on stock buybacks. 
• Government gets preferred stock that must be sold when a profit threshold is met. 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did Boeing get TARP funding in 2008/2009?
>
> The banks, insurers, and auto firms did.
>
 

MSE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Boeing did not receive anything special in
> 2008-09. They do not deserve to receive anything
> today. Their issue is they spent $42 billion for
> stock buybacks; cash that is desperately needed
> now. They also put bean counters, instead of
> engineers, in charge. 

...but they got big Washington tax "incentives" to stay here, after which they moved HQ to Chicago, moved some production to South Carolina and overseas, and automated a new plant that had been described as being accompanied with lots of jobs.(Incentives included a new pier in Mukilteo - for receiving barges with containers of airplane components...made elsewhere.)

Now they want the tax breaks "suspended" because losing an unfair competition suit to the EU will cost more than restoring the taxes. However, they have no intention of canceling the tax breaks, just "suspending" them until they can cut a deal with EU that will let them go back to business as usual.

This is part of why when I was developing the commuter service that became Sounder that local officials said that we don't mention Boeing around here. A shift change that involves 40,000 people has a huge effect, but not as much as the hatred for Boeing that caused local officials to prefer putting up with traffic to doing anything that helps Boeing.

On the other hand, when I approached Boeing officials about potential train service, they instantly provided me with everything I needed. Microsoft's response was that traffic is not their problem, no they won't provide any information.

Oh...this morning, I read that the Everett employees were complaining of having to come to work sick with Coronavirus symptoms. The City of Everett is on stay at home except essential status...with Boeing exempt. This morning, they have a dead employee and are stopping production and closing the plants.More of the same pattern.

TAW

MSE Wrote:

• Airplanes' HQ goes back to Seattle.

Why would you mandate where the HQ is?  Why would you force a company that is hurting to spend money to move its HQ?

Prudential, MetLife, Hartford, Principal, and many other insurance companies received TARP money in 2009. They created or used their own banks to receive the funds.

The feds demanded and got warrants or preferred stock. These securities paid a healthy profit.

The feds still control Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Even rock solid conservatives won't sell these cash cows.

Posted from Android

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MSE Wrote:
>
>

• Airplanes' HQ goes back to Seattle.
  >
  >
  > Why would you mandate where the HQ is?  Why would
  > you force a company that is hurting to spend money
  > to move its HQ?

...maybe to make up for the tax break that they got to keep it there...before they moved to Chicago?

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Typhoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MSE Wrote:
> >
> >
>
>

• Airplanes' HQ goes back to Seattle.
  > >
  > >
  > > Why would you mandate where the HQ is?  Why
  > would
  > > you force a company that is hurting to spend
  > money
  > > to move its HQ?
  >
  >
  > ...maybe to make up for the tax break that they
  > got to keep it there...before they moved to
  > Chicago?
  >
  > TAW.   

And why would the federal government would be concered about a state tax break?  And would it make up for the tax breaks the State of Illinois and the City of Chicago gave to move to Chicago?

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

• > And why would the federal government would be
  > concered about a state tax break?  And would it
  > make up for the tax breaks the State of Illinois
  > and the City of Chicago gave to move to Chicago?

I agree it is complex; however, the question was why. For someone living in Boeingland, the potential reason is as I described.

On your further question, the federal government has no particular need to consider state tax breaks. However, why should the federal government bail out a corporation in the first place? Boeing, in particular, is concerned with profit over safety, as evidenced by the planes that can't fly because they may not fly. They refused to take the "recommended" pandemic precautions in the Everett plant (there are "requirements" for the rest of Everett, but "recommendatoins" for Boeing because they are Boeing). Employees complained to no avail...until one of them died. Boeing is shut down now. Boeing will get Federal Cash. Workers will get State unemployment (the remaining ones after Boeing got tax breaks for "new jobs" production that they subsequently automated).

Beyond safety, there is repeated violation of public trust (a protection racket, really - if you don't give us cash, we're going to...what we will do anyway).

So again, why should the federal government give a boatload of cash and other valuable considerations to Boeing (or any other large corporation)?

TAW