Passenger Trains > For those that believe a big corporation can do a RR Diner

Apparently McDonald's tried and failed to do railroad dining cars in Germany in the 1990's:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/38221/the-mctrain-the-rise-and-fall-of-mcdonalds-ambitious-plan-to-conquer-the-railroads?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Since Germany is much smaller geographically than the USA, this does not bode well for our privatization fans.

There is a prototype for everything.

Brian

As proven here, and with Amtrak's "Flexible" or "Contemporary" food service, passing junk food off as a real meals is not profitable, especially for 1 and 2 day trips.

Amtrak's race-to-the-bottom cafe menu is worse than ever in order to distinguish itself from the degraded food served in the former diner "Sleeper lounge". But then money was no object for Amtrak in coughing up $420 Million of the nation's money for the Moynihan Concourse Shopping Mall.  

I have one more suggestion to Amtrak in their quest to make dining a truly horrible experience.
Instead of face to face communication when placing orders they need to use the cheapest, worst audio equipment and force patrons to speak through a barrier.
Then we will have the same experience as a drive-through window.
With my 76 year old ears, even hearing aids cannot make the fast food order takers rapid, distorted words make sense.

There have been a few big corporations that did dining cars pretty well. Northern Pacific, Illinois Central, Louisville & Nashville to name just a few...

First of all, it is freaking McDonald's. I am not going to spend money on fast food. 

If you want to outsource dining car services, bring on Applebee's, BJ's Restaurant and Brewhouse, or Red Robin. Somebody that can provide good, reliable, solid meals and have the ability to do it well.

Yes something needs to change BUT outsourcing dining would be a great start. The company with the contract should have a say over the menu items.

I personally would be inclined to ride the train MORE often if it had good quality food within those windows with a snack/light fare/custom option for late nights.

Note that the McDiner used twice the energy of a conventional diner, needed more kitchen space, and had to be resupplied more often. Like so many others who fail miserably in the rail transportation industry because they have no railroad experience or knowledge, McDonalds was an utter McFailure as a result.

TAW

too bad our l.d. trains are only 3x a week.  IF we had daily l.d. service, MAYBE a "harvey house" type stop for meals might be an option.

it's not like MOST people are taking l.d. trains because they are quickest way to your destination.........

66

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> too bad our l.d. trains are only 3x a week.  IF
> we had daily l.d. service, MAYBE a "harvey house"
> type stop for meals might be an option.
>
> it's not like MOST people are taking l.d. trains
> because they are quickest way to your
> destination.........
>
> 66

I don’t think this would work because host railroads would not tolerate a train sitting on the main for 45” or an hour. There aren't too many places were train could park and not cause delay, IMHO. Most station stops are brief and on the main track. 

Macster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all, it is freaking McDonald's. I am not
> going to spend money on fast food. 
>
> If you want to outsource dining car services,
> bring on Applebee's, BJ's Restaurant and
> Brewhouse, or Red Robin. Somebody that can provide
> good, reliable, solid meals and have the ability
> to do it well.
>

All three of them are either in BK or getting ready to file.
So why would they be any more successful running the diners?

 

Macster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all, it is freaking McDonald's. I am not
> going to spend money on fast food. 
>
> If you want to outsource dining car services,
> bring on Applebee's, BJ's Restaurant and
> Brewhouse, or Red Robin. Somebody that can provide
> good, reliable, solid meals and have the ability
> to do it well.

That might be the 1st time I have ever heard Applebee's described as good food.

The OP's position on this thread is ridiculous.  Because we have one failed example, in another country, that means the concept won't work?  Please.  I hope the OP is beating down the door at Brightline, telling them that the US already had privately funded rail passenger service, and it failed to produce a profit. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/20 15:16 by Typhoon.

Quick internet research found:
Several Applebee's FRANCHISE owners have filed for bankruptsy and closed restaurants in 14 states.  All blame their states new Covid restrictions for their financial problems.
BJs Fracking, not BJs Restaurants, filed for bankruptsy.
BJs Brewhouse, not Brewhouse, filed for bankruptsy.
Red Robin did not file for bankruptsy, but did close many underperforming locations.  Several stories state that Red Robin is in good financial shape.

Back in the glory days of RRs, they lost money on food service.
It was great, but also slow...

The only restaurants that survive here on Mojave are fast food
because people are in a hurry.

Traveling cross country we usually stopped at fast food because of the quality control -
we knew what we would get and not be poisoned at some local place...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

MojaveBill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.
>
> Traveling cross country we usually stopped at fast
> food because of the quality control -
> we knew what we would get and not be poisoned at
> some local place...

Denny's started that way. It was good no matter where you were or at what time. Then the founder sold it to an 'investor group'. They promptly trashed it in pursuit of greater profit. It's kind of the same school of thought that puts the people who count the money at a greatly higher status than those who make the money.

TAW

Typhoon Wrote:

> The OP's position on this thread is ridiculous.  Because we have on failed example, in another country, that means the concept won't work?  Please.  I hope the OP is beating down the door at Brightline, telling them that the US already had privately funded rail passenger service, and it failed to produce a profit. 

THIS IS OP.

Did you even read the article and THINK about the reasons McDonald's Failed???  How would the lessons learned apply for a country that is MANY TIMES the size of Germany -- which is a country that roughly the size of the state of Indiana -- would apply to the USA where it takes three or four DAYS to traverse the country by passenger rail?

Can you think about:

The problems with a very successful Fast Food menu not being supported by a train traversing bum F**K deserted flyover rural areas - and even highly populated areas?  After all most of those places have many very successful fast food outlets that do not have the issues of a mobile train.   IT IS the Mobile Train support issue problem -- not the food.

I know T.O. believes that grommet food is the solution for Amtrak failing to meet the PRIIA Demands, but the Original Railroad's used dining car service as a loss leader. 

It is the Republican Party PRIIA  MANDATE --  That Wiped Out More Than A Century of Private Railroad Wisdom -- that food service BY ITSELF is not allowed to lose money -- that you ignore at your peril.

Brian

 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/20 15:55 by choodude.

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Typhoon Wrote:
>
> > The OP's position on this thread is
> ridiculous.  Because we have on failed example,
> in another country, that means the concept won't
> work?  Please.  I hope the OP is beating down
> the door at Brightline, telling them that the US
> already had privately funded rail passenger
> service, and it failed to produce a profit. 
>
> THIS IS OP.
>
> Did you even read the article and THINK about the
> reasons McDonald's Failed??? 

>1. The problems with a very successful Fast Food menu not being supported by a train traversing bum F**K deserted flyover rural areas - and >even highly populated areas?  >After all most of those places have many very successful fast food outlets that do not have the issues of a mobile >train.   IT IS the Mobile Train support issue problem -- not >the food.

Yep, it is even written about in the article.  A couple of items you ignored.  Nothing to do with the size of the country

"the McTrain did poorly with German travelers. McDonald's reputation for cheapness made it a hard sell to German travelers specially the wealthy, by then accustomed to better meals on other routes"

Reputation has nothing to do with the size of the county.  It does appear that the FOOD was part of the problem.

"Complicating matters, McDonald's faced these problems during a period wherein short-haul air travel was starting to supplant long-distance rail, dragging ridership down"

Lower ridership?  Sounds like there were more issues than you care to acknowledge.    Again, this was a one off 25 some years ago, in a different country.  Not enough to write off the concept.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/20 15:53 by Typhoon.

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Lower ridership?  Sounds like there were more issues than you care to acknowledge.    Again, this was a one off 25 some years ago, in a different country.  Not enough to write off the concept.
 

May I suggest you invest you own money in providing dining car service in the USA's railroad trains?  If you are correct, then you could be the next Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk.

Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/20 16:02 by choodude.

MojaveBill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in the glory days of RRs, they lost money on
> food service.
> It was great, but also slow...
>
> The only restaurants that survive here on Mojave
> are fast food
> because people are in a hurry.
>
> Traveling cross country we usually stopped at fast
> food because of the quality control -
> we knew what we would get and not be poisoned at
> some local place...

Fast food because the skiers and snowboarders going to and from Mammoth are in a hurry. 

Yea, They spent $95.00 or more dollars to ski all day. Another $75.00 for gas.

There broke and need to eat on the cheap

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Typhoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Lower ridership?  Sounds like there were more
> issues than you care to acknowledge.    Again,
> this was a one off 25 some years ago, in a
> different country.  Not enough to write off the
> concept.
>  
>
> May I suggest you invest you own money in
> providing dining car service in the USA's railroad
> trains?  If you are correct, then you could be
> the next Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk.
>
> Brian

LOL.

In 10-15 years there will be no more on board staff, or Superliner diners to comment about. The California corridor trains are putting on new cafe cars that are basically vending machines. After they work those bugs out on those new cars they will introduce to all State trains to save on money these States don’t have. These new train sets they are ordering from Sacramento are not coming with the cafe cars you’re familiar with. Next will be the long distance trains with vending machines.

Can you say El Capitan?