Passenger Trains > No. 6

Zephyr over 16 hours late from CA. What happened?

hzephyr Wrote:
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> Zephyr over 16 hours late from CA. What happened?

Snow....
Left Oakland 4 hours late, 6 Reno ( not bad) lost 4 elko to salt lake 1 to grand junction and 4 to Glenwood springs.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/23 08:53 by goduckies.

Only over Donner. for snow plus late departure Nevada the usual wait for 200 car trains. Maybe Glenwood rockslide further east. Getting close to that season on the Moffat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/23 09:23 by WAF.

People will beat me up for this, but I think 5 & 6 ought be segmented on either side of Denver between January and March..At least the Denver Zephyr could be somewhat reliable and gain some patronage lost by those transitting across Denver. There is high rider turnover there anyway. 

I see a lot of merit in this proposal'. A former Amtrak president proposed it when he was in office.  I believe it was Kumont.
The former CB&Q "Denver Zephyr" was a very popular train.  For people wanting to go through Denver there is a nice hotel in Denver Union Station and others nearby.  Denver, itself is a great tourist destination and has nice commuter rail and light rail.
This would be a real "thinking out of the box".  I would like to see this tried.

Not a bad idea.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> People will beat me up for this, but I think 5 & 6
> ought be segmented on either side of Denver
> between January and March..At least the Denver
> Zephyr could be somewhat reliable and gain some
> patronage lost by those transitting across Denver.
> There is high rider turnover there anyway. 

Amtrak can also set up an overnight hotel package with Crawford Hotel. But they would not.

Donner in winter is Donner in winter. As are the Rockies in winter, although not in this case. Both have always been factors that can throw a train well off its schedule. And they always will be. If you are going to travel by train via that route in winter (or, to be fair, to fly into Denver or Salt Lake City in winter - I've been badly delayed in both airports in the past) you just have to take that into account as a possible factor. As I did traveling Chicago to Salt Lake on the CZ about a month ago. Weather proved not to be a factor, and we had good timekeeping. 

The difference now is the slowdown across Nevada. There could be weather there, yes, but less likely to be a big problem as in the mountains. And the WP and the SP could in the past count on that segment to keep time, and maybe make up a little - but not lose even more. But the monster "no-fitter" trains that UP is running now are not allowing for a smoothly flowing railroad across Nevada. And that impacts a lot of customers - both for UP freight, and for Amtrak. And that's a management-made problem - not a nature-made problem. Thanks to PSR.

Instead of plumping up its stock with buybacks, UP should be putting a lot more capital expenditure into alleviating this issue across Nevada with more and longer passing sidings - or by reducing train lengths. Or whatever it takes to maintain fluidity for all customers, freight and Amtrak.

Don't blame Amtrak for this one. Put it squarely at the feet of Mother Nature - and Uncle Pete. And the PSR cult that brought it about, and keeps it rolling at the behest of the hedge funds.

By the way, whatever happened to that idea to make PSR maven Jim Vena the new UP CEO? That channel seems to have gone off the air...hopefully not because the idea is finding success.

MC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/23 11:44 by ironmtn.

Donner will always be a problem during winter storms, but I see the idea of segmenting the California Zephyr
at Denver as simply capitulating to Union Pacific's inability/refusal to operate the CZ on schedule.  

Real "out of the box" thinking would establish a second Chicago-Denver train with better times for Omaha and
Lincoln, rather than being glued to the transcon connections at Chicago and the CZ scenery first schedule. 
Or the eastbound schedule of number 6 would work much better for on line stations such as Salt Lake and Lincoln
if the transcon connections at Chicago were broken and the train operated about 3-4 hours later. 

Amtrak would get more bang for the buck by putting a second train on routes that only have one train now.
They already have stations, a passenger base that would have more choices, and a railroad that (sometimes) knows how to run an expedited
(passenger) train.  BSB
 

To be fair, UP has been at least trying to add capacity between Wells (NV) and Salt Lake City, but to date those efforts have only lengthened two sidings, Shafter in Nevada and another one in the Aragonite area of Utah.  Those can help, to an extent. 

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV

A  restored Denver Zephyr is an interesting idea.   One should remember that in CB&Q times  the DZ left Chicago 2 hours later, overtook the CZ and was off to the yards for servicing beforethe CZ came in.   That was back when that mainline had faster track.
The lame PSR monster trains need to be outlawed by STB/FRA--no train longer than the shortest passing siding on the division.   ISTR that WP and SP had a directional running agreement in Nevada.  Has UP downgraded both routes?

Maybe East Palestine will put all their PSR nonsense and infrastucture that does not support it under review, even if it did not cause that disaster directly.

i can tell the person that started this did not even look at the amtrak track and the history of the train https://www.amtrak.com/track-your-train.html

BrynMawr Wrote:
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> A  restored Denver Zephyr is an interesting
> idea.   One should remember that in CB&Q times 
> the DZ left Chicago 2 hours later, overtook the CZ
> and was off to the yards for servicing beforethe
> CZ came in.   That was back when that mainline
> had faster track.
> The lame PSR monster trains need to be outlawed by
> STB/FRA--no train longer than the shortest passing
> siding on the division.   ISTR that WP and SP
> had a directional running agreement in Nevada. 
> Has UP downgraded both routes?

Mostly, I agree. But the Denver Zephyr did not overtake the California Zephyr. It was a faster schedule, (less stops), but it arrived in Denver after the CZ.

Posted from iPhone

Sacraficing a train for a Denver-Chicago Train, sorry I'm not for that one bit, adding the frequency's a better idea!

traindave Wrote:
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> i can tell the person that started this did not
> even look at the amtrak track and the history of
> the
> train https://www.amtrak.com/track-your-train.htm

Oh, but they did. See the visual below as of 9:10 pm ET this evening from asm.transitdocs, which many of us use instead of Amtrak's Track-a-Train. Data feed source is the same, direct from Amtrak telemetry, but the presentation is better. Look at the time for #6 of the 9th of March at Glenwood Springs, Colo. in the column at left  - 16 hrs 58 minutes late. (This is from the webpage - if you use the phone app it is a pull-up instead of a sidebar, and appears differently).

Also note what happened going across Nevada, losing some 5 1/2 hours between Elko and Salt Lake City, added to the 6 /12 hours or so which were lost crossing Donner, a margin which more or less was held to Elko.

Perhaps you didn't understand what you were seeing, or you were tracking the train from the wrong day. No. 6 of the 10th is doing better than the train of the 9th, but is still projected to be down 7 hours 15 minutes at Glenwood Springs.  Still tough sledding.

MC

 

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Finally got a new crew on was moving at 911pm.     Earlier leaving denver and east of Hudson.  

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My bad.     Checking OGs from 56, 59, 62, mostly the BZ arrived 10 minutes behind the CZ having left 1:50 later.    Doubt BNSF could sustain  a DZ on that schedule today.  

ProAmtrak Wrote:
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> Sacraficing a train for a Denver-Chicago Train,
> sorry I'm not for that one bit, adding the
> frequency's a better idea!

Nobody said "sacrifice it". Split it in half for 3 winter months, and at least the portion east of Denver would be pretty reliable, which is also more heavily used. What we have now is rather uselss train, end to end, and it won't even originate from either terminus today.

A 2nd frequency to Denver is a total non-starter. Stop day dreaming and get practical. 

As much as I enjoy the "full" California Zephyr trip running seamlessly through Denver year round (just completed a very good Chicago - Salt Lake trip recently), the idea of splitting the service at Denver for the winter months makes sense. The impact of winter weather in the western mountains is very real. And for the eastern "DZ" segment, the High Plains ain't necessarily devoid of serious winter weather either.

My only worry: would it in fact get restored to through service in the springtime - there are plenty of excuses that could be trotted out. And yes, as much as I am generally less negative and conspiratorial about Amtrak's management than others who post regularly in this forum, I have my suspicions about them too.

I think however that the non-winter traffic would sufficiently justify a full through service that it would be restored. But vigilance is always the price not only of liberty, but good and proper service as well.

MC