Western Railroad Discussion > BNSF "random" drug testing???

I'd like to get a feel from RR employees, especially BNSF about what they have experienced with "random" FRA testing. A crew at another yard had a minor derail recently, and on this same night, BNSF set about testing a completely different crew working a completely different yard for both drugs and alcohol. The testing rate for 2002 is 25% of covered employees, but that testing should be completely random, and the company is supposed to keep records showing that it is completely random. The fact alone that an entire crew at a different yard was tested indicates to me that the testing was NOT random, and management was selectively testing using standards not in compliance with the FRA rules. Anyone else experienced this?

I personnaly don't have a problem at all with being tested, as far as I'm concerned, if you come to work under the influence of Alcohol or other substance, I DON'T WANT TO WORK WITH YOU. This is probably the only instance where I would rat somebody out and be totally unapologetic about it. This is a safety issue not only for myself, that person, but everybody else out there. Nobody wants to die because someone was working who was a bit tipsi.

In terms of having to take a peepee test, I was the foreman on a job in the bowl at Argentine that derailed on the lead, (the car had thin flanges and was heading to the RIP, so it wasn't our fault) but at the end of our tour of duty, the nurse was waiting for us and we took the test, no big deal.

In terms of randomness, I can't speak for that, I don't know, the only thing that I could think of in that instance is that the crew on the other job had be selected for test prior coming to work, plus the crew that derailed were probably tested later.

Santa Fe

Well, they have random testing, plus mandatory after an accident. Of course, in your example, they were testing people not involved in the incident.

My friend told me that a guy at his facility was tested after an argument about a Maxim magazine and sunflower seeds. Anyway, the guy told everyone he was toast, since he had been smoking pot regularly on his days off. He said he went to the stall, filled the cup half up with water, then peed a little in it.

He was never disciplined. I told my friend it probably has more to do with the fact that his dad is the local union boss, rather than him attempting to dilute the test.

I heard another case where a semi driver was delivering goods to the facility, and afterwards, backed over a fire hydrant. Everyone who came around could smell the alcohol on his breath, but the BNSF cop took him over to the motel to sleep it off rather than cite him.

I agree with Santa Fe. If your *#@^ up on drugs or alcoholic I don’t want to work with you! The rail industry kills a lot of employees each year & I don’t want to be one of them. Drugs and alcoholic have no place in the work place! And as far as that goes, drugs will just take you nowhere fast! BNSF drug policy is first time, we will help you reform with 10 year probation. Second time and your OUT and I don’t have a problem with that!
As far as alcohol goes, I like a drink as much as a lot of others out but I don’t take it to work, not even in the form of a hang-over.
OUT!

If you didn't know if you eat a poppyseed bagel or other baked goods with poppyseeds in them you will test positive for Heroin use. (Keep your receipts.)

I haven't heard that you will test positive for heroine, but poppyseeds contain opium that will show up in tests.

Generally the cups provided have a thermometer built in or actually this is a temperature strip on the side. What this does is to alert the nurse that the cup was filled from a fountain or toilet which then causes the sample to be immediately rejected. Next when is the BNSF or any railroad held to testing frequencies set by FRA. If BNSF or whatever road wishes to test at one yard continually ignoring the rest of the system then isn't it their business? If I were on a head end crew and someone was bitching about being tested then I as well would be suspicious about working with that person.

While we at the Sierra Rwy are not a class 1 road we are still under the general code and since we are essentially employees of the state of California we are tested when first hired, randomly and whenever there is a reportable incident involving an injury or damage to equipment. Our brakemen, conductors, dispatchers and trainmasters and track gangs are only tested when first hired and if they are directly involved in an incident. Employees in engine service, engineers, firemen and hostlers undergo testing when first hired, when involved in an incident as well as random testing. We may have different testing rules than some of the big roads but our responsibilities are the same.

As an aside in my regular daytime time as an Operating Engineer we are tested pre-employment and if involved in a reportable incident involving an injury or damage to equipment.

Personally I have no problem with drug testing. Considering the amount of responsibility that I have to assume as a part-time railroader and as an Operating Engineer, I would imagine that my co-workers appreciate the fact that I am 'clean' especially when part of our daily routines involve risks that could result in damage to equipment, severe injuries or even death. I know I truly appreciate it when my job requires me to put my trust in my fellow co-worker(s) and I know that they are 'clean'. If you are 'clean' then there is nothing to hide. Especially if your livilihood as well as your co-worker's depends on you performing at the highest and SAFEST level.

Bottom line is: If you are clean and play by the rules what's the big deal? The company pays for the testing and in most if not all cases you get paid for the time spent being tested. If you are clean, and in the odd chance you initially test positve for company specified 'controlled substance' in the typical drug screen test, the test lab is ALWAYS REQUIRED to re-test the sample using a different, drug specific test method to confirm or negate whether a prohibited drug is present as well as the concentration level. The labs and the newer, more accurate methods in place now greatly reduce 'false positives'. Of course there are some prescription drugs that will present themselves as 'prohibited substances' but there are specific tests that are used to match the 'fingerprint', in you will, of the prescription drug in question. Keep in mind that when you fill out the 'Consent For Drug Testing' form , a required form by law that allows an employer to collect samples for drug testing in relation to employment, there is ALWAYS a declaration page where you list ANY prescription drugs you are currently taking. You are also required to report any changes to this form should your health require you to take additional prescription drugs. Prescription drug abuse is as much of a problem as illegal or controlled substance abuse and nearly every company has policies that deal with both issues.

I've been drug tested for the last 14 years for pre-employement (sometimes as many as 4-6 times a year), on the job following an incident, and randomly. I have been on several prescription 'pain killer' drugs that have presented themselves in initial screening. I have never had a problem because I listed the drugs I was (am) currently taking on the declaration form. These prescription drugs in question did not exceed the levels specifed by the employer(s) nor were they on the prohibited list.

Dunno about you, but the last place I want to be is between a cut of cars, underneath a car inspecting rigging or heading down the mainline knowing my coworker is not thinking clearly due to a drug induced sense of reality. The consequences of such behavior is too high a price that I am willing to pay.

SV

Poppy seeds will give a positive result for Morphine. However, the DOT raised the cutoff level for opiates in the drug tests to eliminate "false positives" from poppy seeds. The current cutoff level is something you would not reach just by eating food containing poppy seeds.

OK, maybe you are missing the point. Here is what the law says (49CFR 219.601):

(1) Selection of covered employees for testing must be made by a
method employing objective, neutral criteria which ensure that every
covered employee has a substantially equal statistical chance of
being selected within a specified time frame. The method may not
permit subjective factors to play a role in selection, i.e., no
employee may be selected as the result of the exercise of discretion
by the railroad. The selection method must be capable of
verification with respect to the randomness of the selection
process, and any records necessary to document random selection must
be retained for not less than 24 months from the date upon which the
particular specimens were collected.


So, if the railroad is not selecting personnel to be tested by the approved FRA method that has been previously submitted, then they are testing illegally. Ignore the fact that no one wants to work with someone under the influence, and consider only the point that the company has altered the rules that were put in place to protect workers from illegal testing. When considered from this view, the company can take illegal job actions against people who they "subjectively select" rather than purely random selection. If you think that this is acceptable, then you might want to consider dropping out of your union, since this type of illegal action by a company is what they have traditionally protected workers FROM.

I was tested this past week, and the forms had no place to list prescription drugs. The nurse simply said they would call if "something" shows up. This was a random test, but came during the middle of the shift instead of at the beginning as it has been in the past.

UP Condr

BN001,

Any truly random process has to include the possibility of "unusual" things. Otherwise, it wouldn't be totally random. Now, if the same unusual thing keeps on happening over and over again, well then, yes, that's evidence of a nonrandom process.

-=paulf

bn001 wrote:
>
> So, if the railroad is not selecting personnel to be tested by
> the approved FRA method that has been previously submitted,
> then they are testing illegally.

Well, what are you questioning, the Time windows for testing Road crews? The testing of switch crews based on job number or on-duty times? or that the other crew was also tested under BNSF authority for a rules violation? I could go on with more, but I won't.

70macland wrote:
>
> bn001 wrote:
> >
> > So, if the railroad is not selecting personnel to be tested by
> > the approved FRA method that has been previously submitted,
> > then they are testing illegally.
>
> Well, what are you questioning, the Time windows for testing
> Road crews? The testing of switch crews based on job number or
> on-duty times? or that the other crew was also tested under
> BNSF authority for a rules violation? I could go on with more,
> but I won't.

Yes, what is blazes is bn001 upset about? What is his point?? Or doesn't have have a thought out point??

bn001 you need to lay off a trip or two and smell the daisies. You are seeing villians where none exist.

I personally feel that everyone should take a breath test before working on railway equipment and I have NO problem with drug and alcohol tests...The more the merrier and if they're stupid enough to use em then I get a seniority move hehehe...

bn001 wrote:
>
A crew at another yard had a minor derail recently, and on this same
> night, BNSF set about testing a completely different crew
> working a completely different yard for both drugs and alcohol.

If they are "completely different," then how are they connected? This is like saying the carrier is up to something if a train derails in Texas, yet a crew in Washington is drug tested within the same 24 hour period! Conspiracy!

it is very simple:
-
random: the computer selects an employee number for a certain date, then a 7 day window exists to test that employee at the 1st opportunity. if on days off or vacation, the employee is tested on
the day they return to work unless the 7 day window expires.
-
for tey, a time is selected by the computer, the 1st crew to go on duty after that time is tested.
-
i have seen people tested 3 times in 2 weeks on a random basis, people who have never had a drink and teach sunday school. it is the luck of the computer draw.
-
probable cause: this occurs any time there is a major rules infraction. this could happen to any covered employee at any time based on rules infractions. probable cause testing can also be done if the employee exhibits signs of impairment. 2 supervisors must concur.
-
i was against random testing in the beginning based on constitutional
principle: unreasonable search and seizure. however, the supreme court has reviewed the law and upheld it so it has been judged constitutional. it has had a major positive effect on cleaing up the railroad. things are much much better.
-
i do not think any ralroad supervisor would jeopardize his/her career or incur liability by abusing this federal law.
-

for more info: two good books for employees subject to testing:
-
drug testing at work
-
steal this urine test: by the late abby hoffman
-

bn001 wrote:

"I'd like to get a feel from RR employees, especially BNSF about what they have experienced with "random" FRA testing. A crew at another yard had a minor derail recently, and on this same night, BNSF set about testing a completely different crew working a completely different yard for both drugs and alcohol. The testing rate for 2002 is 25% of covered employees, but that testing should be completely random, and the company is supposed to keep records showing that it is completely random. The fact alone that an entire crew at a different yard was tested indicates to me that the testing was NOT random, and management was selectively testing using standards not in compliance with the FRA rules. Anyone else experienced this?"


Well here's your problem, which results in you have ZERO argument: you have no statiscal or hard evidence to back this claim up. So both crews got tested? The other crew at the other yard got tested and the ones involved in the minor derailment didn't? Are we talking about two yards a mile apart or Los Angeles and Chicago? To me, what you described is a result of random picking. Study statistics sometime in school, if you can handle the boredom.

> This was a random test, but came during
> the middle of the shift instead of at the beginning as it has
> been in the past.


All of the testing that I've ever seen has always come at the end of a shift. This is the wat the KCS and IMRL do it. The reasoning is very simple. It could be shown that if you have had a drug test, and you do something, specifically like a crossing incident, and the test shows up positive, then the railroad could be held liable. After every drug test I've seen, crews have performed no duties afterwards.

As far as me, I've been employed by the RR for almost 2 1/2 years and have yet to be tested except for the pre-employment test. I don't care if they test me everyday. They have to hold me out of service until the results come back and then make up for lost wages. They never test me, even when I beg them too! LOL! What have I got to worry from? I don't do any illeagal drugs, smoke, or even drink. Bring it on! I could use the time off!

imrl