Steam & Excursion > how bad is it? (or NYC 3001 question)

While looking for a picture of a specific NYC mohawk online, I ran accross this picture of NYC 3001s firebox and I was wondering, just how bad is it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/20 10:00 by NYCStL776.

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What is that plugging most of the tubes and flues?

It looks like some small rodent nests. I've also seen them in abandoned farm implements.

Leaking staybolts are routine maintenance.

-LD

I had examined the 3001 in the mid-1990s...as a potential candidate for one of 
Ross's intended projects.

The firebox interior is in reasonably good condition. 
100% of the superheater units were virtually rusted away... mostly the lower halfs.

The greatest challenge to resolve is the extent of the damage to the 'Flannery sockets' that
had ( at one time), held the ball of the bolthead & the removable Staybolt caps..  
The loco had been displayed outside, uncovered, for decades, and the wet, asbestos insulation
( lagging), ----covered at one time ---- with sheet metal steel jacket, the 'sockets' had been  COMPLETELY
eaten-away. The ( asbestos-embedded)  Flannery caps, and sockets were entirely gone..
Better than 90% of the boiler's Flannery, external sockets & caps were completely gone, rusted away...

I'm not sure what is the currently acceptable resolution of that problem...
To me, coming up with the best resolution of that problem requires 
an engineerIng-based solution.   Probably, it would involve the entire replacement of each of the Flannery
'assemblies' ----ALL-new bolts, 'cup-receptacles' , caps and copper gadgets.
It is the crucial problem, of a LONG list of needed repairs that would be required to make the
boiler safe and to meet ASME standards, acceptable for a rating of its designed boiler pressure.

It be COULD be restored to operation; but, the costs to do so would be very prohibitive.....
The years exposed to the elements abd severe neglect, were very corrosive, to what had been
an easily restored BEAUTY and candidate...now, it very close to being ruled as 'junk'...
IMHO..

it is a SURVIVOR;  however, and that's why I had wanted to make an in-person assessment
of the engine at Elkhart, In., decades ago.

Someday, I'll dig out my report, with photos,  and post on-line..

Wes Camp

to proof, yet...

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/20 12:42 by wcamp1472.

It ran like that?

Out 

No, It had been on display disguised as Frisco 909  (forgot where) until my late internet friend Bob Spaugh arranged a trade and get her moved to Elkhart and that was years ago.  She hasn't run since retirement probably in 1957.  Being on display outside in the weather took it's toll.

I was under the impression that it was "done-over" as a T&P engine,
and placed on display in Texas. in the 1950s...

When I had inspected the engine In Indiana, the tender's coal-section
( when modified to look like a T&P engine), side sheets had been cut-off ----
 level with the water section.... to simulate an oil burner...(?)

"Adding insult to injury.."

Stilts...

There is no soot inside the firebox. Note the white numbers chalked (or more likely written with a soapstone welder's marker) on the rear tube sheet above the boiler tubes, and the circles and Xs and other marks at each staybolt. Folks have clearly spent a lot of time cleaning and inspecting the firebox.

Both ATSF 2926 and ATSF 3751 had to repair corroded flexible staybolt caps/heads/etc on the firebox wrapper sheet (exterior surface). The repairs are doable with enough time, volunteers, and money.  More info at www.nmslrhs.org › Sidebar › NewsLetters › Library › Vol-XIII-No-1

I don't see anything that would be a show-stopper. - Doug Debs

  

DWDebs/2472 Wrote:
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> I don't see anything that would be a show-stopper.

 At least not from this side.  Wes seems to know better.

But anything's possible.  All it takes is money.

-LD

3001 was displayed as T&P 909 at the Age of Steam Railroad Museum located at Fair Park in Dallas Texas.  The first two shots were taken in the summer of 1981. In the first one, you can clearly see the T&P logo plate mounted above the headlight.  The third shot was taken in June 1983, again at Fair Park.  A basic relettering to her NYC heritage is clearly evident althought the T&P herald plate is still above the headlight.  I THINK the story was that T&P had donated one locomotive to AOS but it fell into bad disrepair and was scrapped. AOS asked T&P for another locomotive except at this point, they had no more steam locomotives left to donate. Calls were made and 3001 was gussied up and displayed as the 909.  Again, I THINK it was sometime in the mid-late eighties that a trade was arranged with the folks in Elkhart. They got the 3001 and a GG1 went south to Dallas.  Corrections are welcomed, of course (first the hairline goes then the memory isn't far behind!) ....

Regards,
Burlington John
 

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burlingtonjohn Wrote:
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> 3001 was displayed as T&P 909 at the Age of Steam
> Railroad Museum located at Fair Park in Dallas
> Texas.  The first two shots were taken in the
> summer of 1981. In the first one, you can clearly
> see the T&P logo plate mounted above the
> headlight.  The third shot was taken in June
> 1983, again at Fair Park.  A basic relettering to
> her NYC heritage is clearly evident althought the
> T&P herald plate is still above the headlight.  I
> THINK the story was that T&P had donated one
> locomotive to AOS but it fell into bad disrepair
> and was scrapped. AOS asked T&P for another
> locomotive except at this point, they had no more
> steam locomotives left to donate. Calls were made
> and 3001 was gussied up and displayed as the
> 909.  Again, I THINK it was sometime in the
> mid-late eighties that a trade was arranged with
> the folks in Elkhart. They got the 3001 and a GG1
> went south to Dallas.  Corrections are welcomed,
> of course (first the hairline goes then the memory
> isn't far behind!) ....
>
> Regards,
> Burlington John
>  

The T&P donated a 2-10-4, number 638, to Dallas, where it was displayed on the state fairgrounds. It was vandalized and deteriorated so badly that T&P had it scrapped within 2 years of its donation.

Posted from Android

I was wrong, T&P was the disguise, not Frisco.  Similar shaped emblems, thanks Wes and John for correcting that.  That "someone" was Bob Spaugh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/20 19:45 by nycman.

NYCMan..

The same thing ( mixed-up recollections) happens to me  --several times a day...

Ralph Waldo Emerson said: "Consistency is the Hob-Gobblin of little minds.."
So, i don't get too impatient with my lapses and failed mental blanks ---thats other folks'  job.

The places I've gone, the things I've done, the friends I've made, the  RR-experienced, old-heads that mentored me have guided
me down a path  of unimaginable, wonderful experiences.  

I've lived a Railfan's Dream.  
I'll have to write it down, soon.

I think i'll strart with a list of the names ... of the folks that guided me, advised me, & picked me up when I've stumbled.
Now that the future of  'main line steam' is getiing lost in the clouds of uncetrainty, the stroms of unfounded fears of today's RR manager class,
diesel-contro;l boxes, and exhorbitant 'insurance'  premiums, it makes my heart pound with gratitude when I remember the the choices I've
made.  Inavriably, when the chance to take-on new steam loco projects vs. staying in the shadows of more certain career paths, Steamers have
led me, unerringly, to the heights of wonderful experiences, never to be repeated adventures, and the greatest railroaders of the late 20th century.

One example of never to be repeated events, was the trips over the DL&W's Main Line, from Hoboken, to Scranton and return -- over the famous
Lackawanna Cutoff... east of the Delaware Water Gap, and populated North Jersey...  60 miles (?) of high speed, double-track, perfectly straight, level track ---
where Ross would really 'let-her-rip' .... its all gone now.. and it ain't coming back... or, the now-abandoned Western Maryland rails between Baltimore & Connellsville!
The disappearnce of the Greenbrier Subdivision --- Ronceverte, to Marlinton, to Cass and Durban... it, too, will never come back..

Thanks to all that enabled me have the opportunity to say "YES!", and grab uncertainty by the horns ... and get a chance to do the unimaginable.
Who else had the chance to dream of getting a Queen out of a Park in Portland ---- have one of their dearest friends and students, agree to undertake
the job of leading the Restoration Team to bring the 4449 back to LIFE.  It was my dream, the glimmer of an idea, and the gang that made it happen.

None of this would have happened,  if God had not intorduced Ross to me, way-back in November of '66...
Ross was my greatest mentor and Boss.... without him, and the opportunities he gave me, none of the above life-time of experiences would ever have become
a Reality for me.

Some memories are burned indelibly in my mind, and will never fade.... my daily mental lapses are as trivial as flatulence from my 'nether-region'.

Thank you, Nycman, for igniting those embers.... I treasure the memory of meeting you in ORHF ( next to the 4449) ....
and its too bad the NYC didn't save a 6000 for Ross & I to restore .... we came 'close" with the 3001; but, not close enough...
The 3001 still exists, though.   There's no Hudsons or Niagaras, however. 
Ross was raised up near Albany.... imagine what might have been, if they'd saved a 6000!
You and I can dream, though.

W.
(to be proofed, yet ; pardon the typos..)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/20 05:08 by wcamp1472.

          I thought it was a photo of one of Special Ed's gunked up engines.

I'd rather see the city of Elkhart put 2 or 3 million into the 4-8-2 than worry about cracks in the streets or toilet paper in the municipal building.    Publically you won't agree with me....but silently you do.

Like so many steam loco projects, it would not actually TAKE  $3 million...BUT, you could SPEND that much.
Question 2:  What would the city do with the 3001, when restored?
If put to a vote of the citizens, what's your guess as to the probability of passing?
How would the 3001 help their community?

Portland is in a different galaxy...
There, the 4449 has been turned into a true, rare asset.

W.
 

Elkhart could become the "Star City of the Water Level Route".  The Jim Thorpe of the Reading & Northern.

3001 needs a shelter over it.   Maybe that would impede further damage. 

Make that in the "past" tense.
The shelter could  have protected the engine from the elements ....
mostly from decades of rain storms.

The most severe damage has already been done.

We're mostly talking a money issue here....it's very labor-intensive:
 removing  ALL affected stay bolts, removing what's left of the rusted-off sockets,
manufacturing all new replacement stay bolts and their sockets, caps and gaskets.
Then you've got the task of installing all that new hardware.

Its nothing so severe, that money wouldn't fix-it...
There's lots of cash sloshing around, out there..

W.