Eastern Railroad Discussion > Coal Train Rescued by Railfans

On Saturday, CSX V605 was trying to haul 12,000 tons of coal off the Salisbury branch (from the Shaw mine) at Meyersdale, PA when slick rails and no sand on the engines (AC\'s 419 & 411) halted forward progress 150\' from the switch to track 2. After hearing the predicament on a scanner and watching a crewman toss a few handsful of sand in front of the engines, two railfans brought containers of sand from their nearby SUV and helped the crew heavily hand sand the rails to the switch. The 80 car train then inched forward (the anti-wheel slip computer was giving its all), grabbed a foothold on the sand, and eased out on the mainline. The first picture shows the coal train grinding to a halt with a pair of Connellsville helpers waiting on track one to later assist the heavy train up the grade on the mainline to Sand Patch. The second picture shows a crewman tossing sand in front of 419. Its always good to carry sand when you are winter railfanning!

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That is an interesting story.
What\'s sad is:
(1) how badly CSX underpowers their trains, and
(2) how GE keeps telling CSX these AC lightning bolts can pull anything up any grade in any kind of weather. Fact is both companies are clueless.

Same train of snow ... I mean coal, with no problems 30 min later ... going DOWN hill :-)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=2562

Could not the Helper engine have
doubleheaded this train off the branch???

CSX usually assigns SD50\'s to helper service out of Connellsville and Cumberland and these units are prohibited from using the Salisbury Branch because they lack radial trucks. I have witnessed SD50\'s on the branch when they rescued a coal train that had just one AC4400. They stayed on the rails but did take out the pavement at a crossing with their plows!

Here\'s a shot of the 296 crossing the old bridge on the branch a few winters back.

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Could the two idle SD50\'s have pitched in? I don\'t see why not.......just a few more movements coordinated by Jacksonville. I saw the same thing a year ago when four old four-axle units began a serious rail burn in the same location. One look at the rail and you can see this has happened several times.

1) Two AC44\'s are completely fine for a 90 car coal drag on a grade of less than 1%...

2) They really can pull anything, I have seen it. This is a case where pure physics prevented them from doing this. I think that is easy to see...

RW

3) Dispatching the locomotives from Cumberland without any sand in the sandboxes didn\'t help their adhesion any.

Don\'t forget 200\' of garden hose in addition to the sand. Just look -- http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/alvanhalen/DryQ245.jpg

That was a hoot. Here\'s another look.

DRF

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Had jax had enough knowledge to have the sand filled on these units they would have made it, 2 DC units would have just died under this situation.

Were both units dry? or did the sanders freeze?
I heard of the sand freezing in the tube and clogging before in winter.
Kinda silly too think that they didn\'t get sand while at the service pad.....but ya never know with CSX ;)

slr62 wrote:

> 1) Two AC44\'s are completely fine for a 90 car coal drag on a
> grade of less than 1%...
>
> 2) They really can pull anything, I have seen it. This is a
> case where pure physics prevented them from doing this. I think
> that is easy to see...
>
> RW
>
> [%sig%]

1. Which means they can\'t pull 90 cars on a grade of over 1%
2. Pure physics? In other words they can do just so much, period. These units are not magical.

The point is CSX plays the game hoping they will do the job, however slowly, even if they stall now and then.

And with AC\'s, when the rail is wet, all bets are off, sand or not.

I stalled 7500 tons on a 1.8% grade with two of the neutered 6000hp (4700hp) AC\'s last week. Wet rail, forget it. 0.6mph isn\'t exactly moving America.

Contrary to popular belief, these units do have their limits.

I don\'t think you\'re getting it. I and other\'s are saying if you are going to have two units, and only two, your best shot is to have two of these dumptrucks. Would you rather have two or three DC units, such as old SD40\'s, which would basically **** the bed on you..??

How could you have have two downrated AC60\'s if they have only downgraded one of them to 4400HP??

I know they aren\'t magical but from what I see and hear they are the best puller\'s around. That\'s all I am saying...

And I don\'t market for GE, I hate the f-ing computer!
RW



> 1. Which means they can\'t pull 90 cars on a grade of over 1%
> 2. Pure physics? In other words they can do just so much,
> period. These units are not magical.
>
> The point is CSX plays the game hoping they will do the job,
> however slowly, even if they stall now and then.
>
> And with AC\'s, when the rail is wet, all bets are off, sand
> or not.
>
> I stalled 7500 tons on a 1.8% grade with two of the neutered
> 6000hp (4700hp) AC\'s last week. Wet rail, forget it. 0.6mph
> isn\'t exactly moving America.
>
> Contrary to popular belief, these units do have their
> limits.
>
> [%sig%]

slr62 wrote:

> How could you have have two downrated AC60\'s if they have
> only downgraded one of them to 4400HP??

Only one has had its engine _replaced_. The rest have had their horsepower output derated via software controls.

-Dave

Hey, where were the railfans in Columbus, OH last Friday when our 23000 ton coal train got a knuckle? The conductor and I sure could have used a ride from Front Street to 5th Ave..Oh well, I do need the exercise...

Denis F. Blake
Columbus,OH
TTHOTS

Just wondering, what exactly are radial trucks?

1.Three 4000hp widebodies would have walked this (my) train up the mountain. Of course two SD\'s couldn\'t have. Not even three would do it.

2. Almost all of the AC6000\'s have been neutered to 4700hp. Only the 699 is a true 4400hp transvestite.

3. The point is GE and CSX still think a 4700hp unit can do the same job as a 6000hp unit. Sorry, Charlie, it ain\'t happenin\' Nice sales pitch by GE, don\'t you think?

4. I make my living on these beasts - believe me, they do have their limits, but don\'t tell the bean counters that.

msereno wrote:

> Just wondering, what exactly are radial trucks?
>
On a six axle unit, the trucks flex in the middle allowing a tighter turning radius (allowing six axle units to go some places where four axles were only allowed) and less wear on the wheels...

They really turned the AC60CW\'s into dogs when they cut them back. Hit a hill and your speed just goes to crap.



Randy

chessie wrote:

> They really turned the AC60CW\'s into dogs when they cut them
> back. Hit a hill and your speed just goes to crap.
>
>
>
> Randy
>
> [%sig%]

Amen, brother. I think they\'re afraid of heights. They\'re really flatland machines now......................